Wotja 22 - Generative Music App & Plug-in Host (Free, Pro; AUv3 / VST3)

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Wotja 22 Pro Wotja: Generative Music System

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impete wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:13 am
JamminFool wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:32 pm hi pete,

i also noticed the early-bird special pricing is gone. i thought you would announce the end of the special pricing once the early issues were worked out. did i miss it?
Hi! Sorry about that - really. Tim and I simply forgot to announce it :dog:

Best wishes, Pete
any shot at the discount returning until things settle down?

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The reworked Wotja plug-in scanner continues to take shape:

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Pete

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JamminFool wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:57 am any shot at the discount returning until things settle down?
Hi! Thanks for asking.

We will think about it, and maybe do something to tie in with the next update - likely to be 22.1.0 - for a few days only (for Windows only).

Best wishes, Pete
Last edited by impete on Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ZincT wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:18 am
Musical Gym wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:56 am I sympathize with the situation, but at the same time, the price is ridiculously low for what you get.
^^^^ This
Thank you very much - we're probably pricing too low to make commercial sense, but there you go :)

Best wishes, Pete

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impete wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:21 am
zzz00m wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:20 pm
courtjestr wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:53 pm It seems like when I load an external plugin, audio is not longer generated by the internal synths. But lets say I am working with a mix. I am happy with all the sounds, except that I want to replace an internal synth with Pigments. How would I do that?
I think Peter explained the reasoning for that earlier in this thread. I cannot recall which page it was on.
Hi! And thanks for asking. There are deep technical reasons for things working as they do.

VST3/AUv3 plug-ins cannot be "injected" into the internals of the "internal" Wotja Synth/FX chains, as they're just too heavyweight: our built-in synth and FX units are ultra-efficient. Our built-in synths are aware of the internal polyphony processing requirements within Wotja - no VST ever would be. There is probably other stuff too, but: there are lots of reasons.

Therefore, the "hosted plug-ins" side of things was added by me as a kind "post process" in the Wotja modular FX processing system; where you can route your Wotja MIDI and/or Audio very flexibly, to work with your hosted VST3/AUv3; hopefully with enough flexibility to deal with *most* requirements.

So, you still have many options:
- use Wotja as a MIDI generator (VST/app)
- use Wotja as an Audio Generator (VST/App) using Wotja's internal Synths/FX
- use Wotja app a plug-in host using Wotja's internal Synths/FX and/or any hosted VSTs you want.

But again: the bottom line is that iit is just the way we've had to architect things, and there is no way we can alter the way it works for many technical reasons.

Pete
Okay. Thanks for the expanded explanation. So I am guessing the connection between an internal synth and the FX chain is not a simple audio stream. I was envisioning that MIDI fed into an internal synth which then generated audio which was in turn fed into the FX processor and then into the Cell FX, Track FX, and Mix FX. I guess I need to figure out Wotja's handling of polyphony to understand this better.

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In the standalone app on macOS, is there a way to select the audio output channels? I'm using a 4-channel USB audio interface, but need to have the output on channels 3-4 instead of 1-2. Thank you.

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waxtrax wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:31 pm In the standalone app on macOS, is there a way to select the audio output channels? I'm using a 4-channel USB audio interface, but need to have the output on channels 3-4 instead of 1-2. Thank you.
Hi, thanks for the question!

The short answer is: no, sorry!

I've looked at this problem several times, but each time I've come away thinking it was almost impossible so stepped away from it.

However, I wonder: now that the Wotja 22 app supports plug-in hosting: are there any VST3s available that you could use that can write their audio input to different audio devices?

That way, you could set-up Wotja with a number of FX chains, and each one could route their audio to a different audio device through using multiple instances of such a VST3?

Just thinking aloud!

Best wishes, Pete
Last edited by impete on Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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impete wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:54 pm
waxtrax wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:31 pm In the standalone app on macOS, is there a way to select the audio output channels? I'm using a 4-channel USB audio interface, but need to have the output on channels 3-4 instead of 1-2. Thank you.
Hi, thanks for the question!

The short answer is: no, sorry!

I've looked at this problem several times, but each time I've come away thinking it was almost possible so stepped away from it.

However, I wonder: now that the Wotja 22 app supports plug-in hosting: are there any VST3s available that you could use that can write their audio input to different audio devices?

That way, you could set-up Wotja with a number of FX chains, and each one could route their audio to a different audio device through using multiple instances of such a VST3?

Just thinking aloud!

Best wishes, Pete
Hi Pete,

I'm wondering whether Blue Cat Audio Connector could be used for this purpose. I will try it out later when I'm back at my PC (it runs on PC or Mac).

There is a demo which you can download here...

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... Connector/

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ZincT wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:44 am Hi Pete,

I'm wondering whether Blue Cat Audio Connector could be used for this purpose. I will try it out later when I'm back at my PC.

There is a demo which you can download here...

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... Connector/
Oooh - that looks like exactly the sort of thing I was dreaming of - I hope it works :)

Best wishes, Pete

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impete wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:45 am
ZincT wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:44 am Hi Pete,

I'm wondering whether Blue Cat Audio Connector could be used for this purpose. I will try it out later when I'm back at my PC.

There is a demo which you can download here...

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... Connector/
Oooh - that looks like exactly the sort of thing I was dreaming of - I hope it works :)

Best wishes, Pete
It works! Here are two solutions: i) Blue Cat connector (paid) and ii) Reastream (almost free)

i). I inserted Connector as an FX plugin in Wotja standalone and then, as Connector is a VST plugin, you need a host that can accept VSTs and route to different audio outputs i.e. any DAW. I tried it with Cakewalk inserting a stereo audio track and Connector on the track. Then I connected the two Connectors via local host, adjusted the buffer on the receiver to avoid dropouts (auto doesn't seem to work) and routed the output to any audio card output as required.

Repeat this for as many tracks as you have in Wotja that you want to separate, remembering to use a different port for each Connector pair. In the example below I'm sending Wotja tracks 1&2 to audio out 1 & 2 and track 3 to audio 3 & 4.

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ii). An almost free alternative would be ReaStream (part of the free ReaPlugs package) plus Element ($2.99).
https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/
https://kushview.net/product/element-single-download/

Reastream is a VST2 plugin so you need to host it in a VST2/3 host within Wotja.
I used Kushview Element below (could also use DDMF Metaplugin or PG Unify).

Image

The above shows the same Wotja tracks going to separate outputs as per the Blue Cat Connector example. If anything Reastream is easier as you don't need to adjust buffer settings.

Incidentally, if you want to record those audio tracks in Cakewalk, then record enabling each track and hitting record will not record anything. I think this is because the audio is routed to the audio output of each track. So to record the tracks just add an Aux send track to each audio track and record on those tracks instead. The output of these Aux tracks then needs to be routed to whichever sound card output you require.

Also, both of the above methods also work for routing MIDI from Wotja to the DAW. You just have to remember to open Connector or ReaStream in Cakewalk and, on the VST drop down, ensure that MIDI output is enable. It will appear as a MIDI source on any Instrument track.

If you don't need to route separate Wotja tracks to different audio outputs then you could just use the Wotja plugin in your DAW.
Last edited by ZincT on Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:32 am, edited 10 times in total.

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ZincT wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:26 am Of course, you could just use the Wotja plugin in your DAW in the first place and avoid all of the above but doing it as above does at least work if using the standalone Wotja.
Simply superb :)

Of course, the Wotja plug-in doesn't allow separation of audio by Track. So, for the problem in hand: with the approach you've described, using the Wotja app is a "use case" where the app has a special advantage (due to it's plug-in hosting, allowing routing to audio device via hosted VSTs...)

Many thanks for the detailed report, I'm sure many people will find it very helpful!

Pete

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impete wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:54 am
ZincT wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:26 am Of course, you could just use the Wotja plugin in your DAW in the first place and avoid all of the above but doing it as above does at least work if using the standalone Wotja.
Simply superb :)

Of course, the Wotja plug-in doesn't allow separation of audio by Track. So, for the problem in hand: with the approach you've described, using the Wotja app is a "use case" where the app has a special advantage (due to it's plug-in hosting, allowing routing to audio device via hosted VSTs...)

Many thanks for the detailed report, I'm sure many people will find it very helpful!

Pete
Ah yes, separating the Wotja tracks to send to different outputs would be the reason for using standalone Wotja with the above configs. :tu: I have updated my text above to make it clearer.

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ZincT wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:04 am Ah yes, separating the Wotja tracks to send to different outputs would be the reason for using standalone Wotja with the above configs. :tu: I have updated my text above to make it clearer.
Some day, I hope to have the VST3/AUv3 support multi-bus output (terminology check required!) to have Omni, and individual tracks. However, no promises!

Best wishes, Pete

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impete wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:22 am
ZincT wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:04 am Ah yes, separating the Wotja tracks to send to different outputs would be the reason for using standalone Wotja with the above configs. :tu: I have updated my text above to make it clearer.
Some day, I hope to have the VST3/AUv3 support multi-bus output (terminology check required!) to have Omni, and individual tracks. However, no promises!

Best wishes, Pete
That would be great but no doubt a lot of work!

By the way, I have updated my examples above to show multiple outputs from Wotja being routed to separate audio outputs.

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JamminFool wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:57 am
impete wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:13 am
JamminFool wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:32 pm hi pete,

i also noticed the early-bird special pricing is gone. i thought you would announce the end of the special pricing once the early issues were worked out. did i miss it?
Hi! Sorry about that - really. Tim and I simply forgot to announce it :dog:

Best wishes, Pete
any shot at the discount returning until things settle down?
Hi - the early bird pricing will be in place again for the release of Wotja 22.1.0 - due any day now - and will end MIDNIGHT Wednesday 2nd February. We don't actually know how Microsoft deal with that across time zones - so if anyone wants it, don't miss out!

Best wishes, Pete

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