KVR Audio

Palestr1na · Post by **Palestr1na** » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:27 pm

I find reading transposing instruments a pesky matter, and one that requires heavy practice. As someone whose mental capacity goes mostly into 'mapping' them in my head into the pitch of C, I'm thinking someone must have come up with some tricks of the trade which might ease your load. I don't know many, except I might mark the non-C parts with roman numerals (degrees), and perhaps throw in some markers for intervals which I think are salient? (Such as the harmonic tritone, which usually implicates a dominant function of some sort, and the minor sixth, which is present in some sixth chords.)

Reading transposing instruments is slightly facilitated by such a case, where the instrument is in the same pitch as the piece itself, ie. a D horn in a D major symphony, but that's about it.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:38 pm

I'm not seeing it. I learned to do it on my own at 11, most sheets I was going to get at the store were for C instruments, and here's a problem.
I'd say get used to it more or less like we get used to a new clef. Conditioning.

Palestr1na · Post by **Palestr1na** » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:36 am

When I look at the notes, maybe the trick is to make the lines (staves) disappear in my head, and try to just see the intervals. What about minor key, jancivil? Would you consider minor key music easier to read than major key with transposing instruments, since the added accidentals sort of keep you better on the map (ie. the harmonic and melodic minors keep you rooted in the tonality of the piece, regardless of what pitch the instrument is in)?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:37 am

Uhm, no. I'm not so much following your reasoning there. It's more than learning a clef because you have to see one key and play in the transposition.
Although, my experience wasn't quite a pure Bb instrument mentality, I'd looked at music for 'regular' C instruments maybe first. I can imagine a Bb instrument orientation where your horn's key is second nature, like thinking in a foreign language as opposed to translating in your head.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:25 am

Why not transpose your own instrument as well?

Palestr1na · Post by **Palestr1na** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:07 pm

BertKoor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:25 am Why not transpose your own instrument as well?

I don't know what you mean. Like if you have C instruments (e. g. flute, oboe, the string section) and one Bb instrument (e. g. clarinet), you should attempt to translate those C instruments into Bb, instead of the other way around?

Playing would make the 'easy' part. It's silent reading that I'm currently struggling with.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:46 pm

Ah. It was not clear at all (at least to me) from your first post you had one sheet (or several) with all the parts.

I find reading transposing instruments a pesky matter, and one that requires heavy practice.

True that...

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:47 pm

Palestr1na wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:36 am Would you consider minor key music easier to read than major key with transposing instruments, since the added accidentals sort of keep you better on the map

If the concert pitch score is written in eg., C minor, you're writing D minor for a Bb instrument (2 fewer flats); A minor for an Eb instrument (3 fewer flats); G minor for an F instrument... w. a harmonic C#, G#, F# respectively etc. So no advantage really.

effie · Post by **effie** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:48 pm

well if I'm playing a bassoon part on bari sax - ignore the clef and add 3 #s. I know - not helpful

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:08 pm

OTOH, you have a piece in keys with many sharps, maybe it's time to call that A clarinetist. IE: C# major reads as E major.

envlpx · Post by **envlpx** » Fri May 27, 2022 11:55 pm

Conductors are trained to used different clefs to read transposing instruments:
https://www.teoria.com/en/articles/transposing/03.php

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat May 28, 2022 10:33 pm

Using a different clef than whatever does in no way transpose the pitches, they're just oriented to another location on a staff.
If your instrument is a Bb instrument, everything 'normally' in C sounds as in Bb; to write a C note for the Bb horn is to write a D for them. Key of C major for the rest of the group is key of D major for the Bb instrument.

The C at 'middle C' one ledger line below treble and one ledger line above bass clef is the middle line on an alto clef. It's one line up for the tenor clef. Etc.
It is still C. A Bb trumpet player plays from that sign (in any clef whatsoever) sans transposition and we get a Bb.

"where the instrument is in the same pitch as the piece itself, ie. a D horn in a D major symphony"
The D major symphony will be written as though C major for a “D horn”.

So, given this we may notice a variety of instruments built off different fundamental tones.
The A clarinet doesn't sound radically different than the Bb. So if one has the resources to pick and choose, if the piece contains or consists of a fair few sharps, or a tonality with a key sig having a fair few sharps, these keys are easier/more suited to the A instrument.
Your Symph. in Ab minor, well maybe don't call the A clarinetist first. There aren't enough flats for it.

Are there any tips and tricks for reading non-C instruments ?