8 scale harmony? but i dont find it

[Caine123]

Silent Hill 2 - Promise (Reprise).rar

hey guys, so i found a midi for silent hill 2 song and checked the notes to see which scale it is but it has 8 notes! i put them in to the scalefinder page but yeah no 8 scale key. how can this be?

the notes are G D#/Eb D A A#/Bb C E F
i attached the small file (you have to rename it to .mid )

[trewq]

Most dont show 8 tone scales, but should at least show all 5, 6, and 7 tone scales contained within any number of notes you enter. Good luck!

I suggest manually finding the Major scales in that, if you want to learn There are 2 of them.

[jancivil]

what do you mean 'how can this be'? You have 8, there can be 8. There can be 53 for that matter.

that has two different Es

EG: a symmetrical octatonic, either A Bb C Db Eb F F# G or its opposite (start with that Bb instead). half whole etc etc, whole half etc etc.
Melodic minor in the proper old (baroque) meaning contains 9.

[jancivil]

You're typically getting way ahead of yourself asking after sophistimacated scale material having a good ways to go to quite grok major and minor, frankly.
You have seven letters to work with*, when it's seven notes each get their own letter unless something extraordinary is going on; here we see eight tones, one of the letters appears twice by definition.

If that is the tune's actual material, you have a clear G Dorian with an extra minor 6 or sharp 5. *G A B C D E F is your basis in letter names. If you're still doing "G A A# C" in scales you are not ready to run with this, I'm sorry to have to break it to ya.
so you've two Ds or two Es. It probably makes no genuine difference here.

[jancivil]

I suggest manually finding the Major scales in that

Why

[trewq]

I suggest manually finding the Major scales in that

Why

Why not?

I mean, since its there it might be good practice for a student.

[BertKoor]

Edit: I meant to quote reply, but accidentally edited away my original post
Here's a reconstruction.




Is this the same tune as this? (starts at 0:25)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkD1_I_Lik

I heard literally within a single second this performance is in G minor, and I have not found any reasons further on why it should not be. The G-D interval gives it away, it's a strong fifth interval.

Not bothering (yet) to figure out which minor scale exactly. Well, at 1:00 the melody finally plays an F being minor seventh interval. Me thinks it's the G natural minor scale. If your midi file is not in G (by the looks of previous comments it is in G as well) then you need to transpose whatever I write here.

the notes are G D#/Eb D A A#/Bb C E F

If you want to find structure, then don't present it as a mess.

First step, put them in order:

Code: Select all

G, A, A#/Bb, C, D, D#/Eb, E, F.

Now determine whether to use sharps or flats. In a proper scale each letter occurs once and only once. Can we do that? The first black key can be put as consecutive letter with a flat, further on one more:

Code: Select all

G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, E, F.

Nearly there!

The left hand seems to play D Eb E Eb. You don't recognise that's copied from the James Bond themes? It has strong tension. This is not happy (or sad) camping, something strange or dangerous is happening.

Why did I write D Eb E Eb and not D D# E D#? Because Eb is part of the Gm scale already: G A Bb C D Eb F G.
It could also be written as D Eb Fb Eb, but I'll leave it to the experts to decide if, and explain why.

You should analyse the triads played by the left hand. What chords do they form?
What's exactly up with the 8th note E which is not part of the scale? Could it not simply be an accidental? Why are you shoe-horning all the played notes into one single oddball scale?

[N__K]

If you're still doing "G A A# C" in scales you are not ready to run with this, I'm sorry to have to break it to ya.

I suspect that the source of confusion is the labeling in the interface of OP's instrument.

By default, the 12 pitches are labeled with "all sharps" in many DAWs, including FL Studio which OP is using. It arguably makes sense when one's intention is to treat each of the 12 pitches as unique - but it can be confusing when trying to learn basics of 7-pitch scales and asking about them on forums.

Figuratively speaking, OP might be ready to run, but the shoes need to be laced properly for the task

I'm under the impression that in newer versions of FL Studio it should be possible to set the piano roll to show flats. Not sure, they know better at Image-Line forums.

[jancivil]

I suggest manually finding the Major scales in that

Why

Why not?

I mean, since its there it might be good practice for a student.

It's there <on paper>. Whether that *is* what it is is another question. We'd have to hear it. In context of how the OP frames things (eg., the note order there) I'm seeing G Dorian. Anyway there's still an extra note. F major with an extra 'flat 7' or augmented 6.

Major, however is not really more primary to music like that may imply.

[BertKoor]

I'm seeing G Dorian. Anyway there's still an extra note.

What you see .... But have you heard any? I made it a bit easier.
Hint: 007 - dum dedum dum

[jancivil]

Well, I suppose my guess as to the tonic is right. I would write Eb before D# based in what you said. I would only write Fb if the line descends F Fb Eb and in the case of that lick I don't reckon it matters.
Also CF: Secret Agent Man theme with two 6ths present

No, the name Silent Hill didn't conjure anything here.

[trewq]

I suggest manually finding the Major scales in that

Why

Why not?

I mean, since its there it might be good practice for a student.

It's there <on paper>. Whether that *is* what it is is another question. We'd have to hear it. In context of how the OP frames things (eg., the note order there) I'm seeing G Dorian. Anyway there's still an extra note. F major with an extra 'flat 7' or augmented 6.

Major, however is not really more primary to music like that may imply.

I should have added 'and then go from there', as often is needed when using a scale finder program, which usually show only the Major, and other parent scales.

Music tutorial software probably list all the modes, but can be too complex from a practical standpoint.

Since G was the assumed tonic, then G dorian if it shows a F Major, or a G natural minor if it also shows a Bb Major inside those 8 notes. Both were already mentioned as possibilities, so there is no argument.

The cool thing about using scale finders is that it could also show other scale permutations inside those 8 notes, like the A blues with either an added b9 or an added b6.

[jancivil]

Well, if that's a typical limitation of "scale finders", that underscores for me the need to DIY

it's not factually wrong or anything, and it kind of is at the beginning level the OP is at

at this point you have them trusting the software in front of their own examination, and one will be stuck there forever until one does do it one's self

[jancivil]

BTW, the .rar here was less than a kilobyte in size, nothing opened it

[BertKoor]

BTW, the .rar here was less than a kilobyte in size, nothing opened it

I think the PhpBB software of KvrAudio limits the file extensions that may be used. The .rar is the .mid file. As written by the OP:

you have to rename it to .mid