Pashkuli: PMN (Plain Music Notation)

[shawshawraw]

Well, yes you are right, its part of the sequence, but really how many would have chosen to notate it like that?

I think it's the cleanest way to notate. If you do "Gx G# Gx" in that example the notation will look even messier. The scale degree is already "#2 x1 #2", and it happens under F# major... It'd look nice in Gb, but that's too far from A major where the piece is based. Necessary compromise!

[Pashkuli]

But thankfully with the development of modern electronic and sound recording it will die out.

So you've decided to notate modern electronic and sound qualities like timbre and spacialisation after all?

No, not really... but could be done, although it will clutter the score. Those parameters of 'sound design' are not really priority to PMN at all (explained it already).

[Pashkuli]

Just found another "masterpiece" of standard music notation from a gibberish "opus" of this individual...
Johann Maximilian Reger, commonly known as Max Reger – German composer and academic teacher. He was a musical director at the Leipzig University Church, as a professor at the Royal Conservatory in Leipzig, and as a music director at the court of Duke Georg II of Saxe-Meiningen.

Right...
Imagine a person like myself having to apply for a new music notation to such a representative of the music education authority. Waste of time. Expectedly his music is not even close to become mediocre.
But is abundant with accidentals, so he must be super well musically educated. Right...

Max Reger - Symphonic Fantasia.jpg

Can you show that in PMN for comparison?

Oh, God, please no... Yes, I can but it will take me a lot of time de-cyphering it from the standard score.

[Pashkuli]

I would like to see Pashkuli's qualifications for comparison too. Just some kind of evidence that he has any clue whatsoever of what he is talking about...

What qualifications? I explained already, I have no formal education in Music... besides one summer of drum lessons (but not institutional, rather private).
For comparison to what? There is no need to be compared. Prince already made a song about that.

[vurt]

I would like to see Pashkuli's qualifications for comparison too. Just some kind of evidence that he has any clue whatsoever of what he is talking about...

What qualifications? I explained already, I have no formal education in Music... besides one summer of drum lessons (but not institutional, rather private).
For comparison to what? There is no need to be compared. Prince already made a song about that.

i dont think he wants a comparison to princes dead mum.

[Pashkuli]

What should we feed Pashkuli with next, Sorabji? What about this one?

Can do it of course, no problem... but a link to a proper MIDI file would save me hours of trying to de-cypher what each note actually is. By the look of it, seems like another gibberish. I guess the music as it sounds would not be far off that expression as well (and keep in mind that I have grown up listening to tech and death metal... mostly).

[Hink]

may I just point out that ESL teachers need to be bilingual, without it understanding goes out the window. This is basically why people are upset, you do not understand their input and yet insist yours is better. The lack of any ability to effectively communicate as a result goes right out the window. You need to understand your errs, you cant, people get frustrated because you dont care. Again these people have devoted their lives to this study, it seems to me if one was serious about a concept they would embrace the learned on the subject even if said learned was against their concept. IMHO you should talk less and listen more like many other innovators have done in the past, knowledge is key, being right should not be the goal at this stage, that is always going to work against you

[Pashkuli]

The lack of any ability to effectively communicate as a result goes right out the window.

Yes, but this thread is not about my ability (or actually the lack of it!) to read ("understand") standard music notation. Yes, I can not read it... but trust me I understand it extremely well.
Because I know how it started and how it is going... and probably how it will end up in a few decades... maybe a century.

I am completely aware that most people want to see vertical interval structure of music (melodies and chords), and that is why they prefer MIDI-roll. I prefer it myself!
But as far s concise and precise notation for the convenience of reading... I think MIDI roll is not the best. It is great on monitor with all the facilities GUIs in programs provide, but as a notation for human readability (range and time) it is difficult.

Standard notation is different but it has other inherited inconveniences imbedded by design.
How is that so? Well I know what my friends and I found frustrating about it. Having no alternative is a bit of a problem for me.

Certainly I had heard of Klavarscribo (as a some sort of a Tablature for piano) and its alleged improvement, though it was quickly replaced by MIDI-roll later when computers became personal.

[Hink]

The lack of any ability to effectively communicate as a result goes right out the window.

Yes, but this thread is not about my ability (or actually the lack of it!) to read ("understand") standard music notation. Yes, I can not read it... but trust me I understand it extremely well.
Because I know how it started and how it is going... and probably how it will end up in a few decades... maybe a century.

I am completely aware that most people want to see vertical interval structure of music (melodies and chords), and that is why they prefer MIDI-roll. I prefer it myself!
But as far s concise and precise notation for the convenience of reading... I think MIDI roll is not the best. It is great on monitor with all the facilities GUIs in programs provide, but as a notation for human readability (range and time) it is difficult.

Standard notation is different but it has other inherited inconveniences imbedded by design.
How is that so? Well I know what my friends and I found frustrating about it. Having no alternative is a bit of a problem for me.

Certainly I had heard of Klavarscribo (as a some sort of a Tablature for piano) and its alleged improvement, though it was quickly replaced by MIDI-roll later when computers became personal.

may I just point out that ESL teachers need to be bilingual, without it understanding goes out the window. This is basically why people are upset, you do not understand their input and yet insist yours is better. The lack of any ability to effectively communicate as a result goes right out the window. You need to understand your errs, you cant, people get frustrated because you dont care. Again these people have devoted their lives to this study, it seems to me if one was serious about a concept they would embrace the learned on the subject even if said learned was against their concept. IMHO you should talk less and listen more like many other innovators have done in the past, knowledge is key, being right should not be the goal at this stage, that is always going to work against you

next time please show the respect of not moving goal posts and creating a strawman with selective quoting and address the point if you feel you have to.

[Pashkuli]

Not sure what do I have to address though.
The main goal of this topic is (as the original post states):
· presenting PMN as an alternative to standard music notation (hardly intended as a replacement... it can not happen in my lifetime, for sure)
· eventually finding people who are skilful at JavaScript (plenty there are) who are also interested in alternative music notations (this actually shrinks them down to probably 2-3 people on Earth at this point)
· presenting some historical and design facts about music notation in general and its relation to keyboards

People have already said they do not like it. Some say it might be useful but since it can not be tested (that is why I need at least a basic JavaScript app for it), it can only be presented partially and in excerpts.

[Erisian]

Not sure what do I have to address though.
The main goal of this topic is (as the original post states):
· presenting PMN as an alternative to standard music notation (hardly intended as a replacement... it can not happen in my lifetime, for sure)
· eventually finding people who are skilful at JavaScript (plenty there are) who are also interested in alternative music notations (this actually shrinks them down to probably 2-3 people on Earth at this point)
· presenting some historical and design facts about music notation in general and its relation to keyboards

People have already said they do not like it. Some say it might be useful but since it can not be tested (that is why I need at least a basic JavaScript app for it), it can only be presented partially and in excerpts.

I was under the impression the main goal was to insult and degrade and generally sh*t on traditional music notation. If you stopped doing that, you might find people more willing to ask genuine questions and take it seriously.

[Pashkuli]

I was under the impression the main goal was to insult and degrade and generally sh*t on traditional music notation. If you stopped doing that, you might find people more willing to ask genuine questions and take it seriously.

General explanation of its origins were necessary to get to the point of what provoked the design or inception of PMN. It is not sh¡tting or anything in that regard.
I approach it as a design problem... not really engineering but we might say there is some engineering involved as it is supposed to solve a particular problem.
I have explored many alternative notations as well. Tis made me believe I can design one myself. So I did. Same with the uniform piano keyboard and the standard one. I approach it from design engineering view.

To bash or belittle people who played those clumsy pianos back in the days of Mozart (which were prone to jam, or get unbalanced), would be stupid. But from todays point of state of the art, we can say that back in those days people did not know any better, because they did not have what we have today. I think it is called progress.

[vurt]

trapped in a man made prison, called progress, scorched in their own inheritance, in a hand me down hiroshima, burning, burning
and who is going to profit
when the watch has stopped for good?

[Hink]

Not sure what do I have to address though.
The main goal of this topic is (as the original post states):
· presenting PMN as an alternative to standard music notation (hardly intended as a replacement... it can not happen in my lifetime, for sure)
· eventually finding people who are skilful at JavaScript (plenty there are) who are also interested in alternative music notations (this actually shrinks them down to probably 2-3 people on Earth at this point)
· presenting some historical and design facts about music notation in general and its relation to keyboards

People have already said they do not like it. Some say it might be useful but since it can not be tested (that is why I need at least a basic JavaScript app for it), it can only be presented partially and in excerpts.

but the effect of the thread is it has become an attractive nuisance and a big part of that is your inability to understand why...that is all I am addressing and I have not mentioned your system, that isnt my place...but you sir are becoming a nuisance with this over and over and as a mod I am concerned about the forum, not your system.

Presenting PMN is the goal of the thread...great, accomplished. Obviously you dont care what people have to say because you refuse to listen. As for looking for people to help with java, you might not be helping yourself with your attitude here. If you expect to exchange ideas, I highly suggest you remember that is a two way street and a little respect goes a long way.

Please keep in mind it's the mods that get the complaints and you have been extended a lot leeway, (someone is reading this right now, rolling eyes and sayin "yah think"). You can rest assured on the fact I have taken a lot of heat on this thread which is fine, that's just part of being a mod. I care nothing of your system, I dont know you, I am just trying to walk a fine line and sir I have been advocate for this thread, not you, not your system but your right to have this thread. The backlash over that has appeared in many threads, it's getting old.

[Pashkuli]

trapped in a man made prison, called progress, scorched in their own inheritance, in a hand me down hiroshima, burning, burning
and who is going to profit
when the watch has stopped for good?

this is actually a really good text for a song!

Reminds me of Massacra:
The meaning of words comes from within
the Gift of Life is Death in the end.
Infinite enemies and forgotten friends,
experience is wisdom, a law you can not bend.
From up above and down below
Religion and money, just part of the show...