Transient shaper vs. compressor

[chemicalfan]

I know there are differences between a transient shaper and a compressor (or dynamic EQ, if you prefer), but apart from simplicity of controls, and a subtly different sound, am I missing something? Transient shapers are primarily designed for use on drums to control the punchiness.....but so are VCA/FET compressors, no? I believe transient shapers work by some kind of filter controlled by an envelope follower (sounds like a dynamic EQ to me), rather than a compressor that works by a volume control working from a trigger? Don't these ultimately achieve practically the same thing, especially in the context of a part in a full mix? Listening to parts in isolation, transient shaping of the attack sounds just like a high-ratio compressor on varying attack to me, and the sustain portions sound like a compressor with a badly set-up release (at extremes), with some EQing going on. Maybe it's down to crappy ears/monitoring, but unless the entire point is to shortcut the compression set-up process, I've missed it.

I've got various compressors for drum compression - SKnote Disto, Waves H-Comp, Roughrider, the ones free with CM (Hornet FET is one, eaReckon's CM-COMP is another), even Stillwell's Event Horizon at a push. Do I need to bother with transient shaping? I can't find any pros that mention transient shaping as part of their arsenal (but would very much appreciate links to interviews, if there are any).

Should mention that I'm producing electronic/dance music, with a rocky influence. Child of the big beat era
I don't work with any live recordings at all, so compression is about punch & presence, rather than levelling out a varying recording.

[msl]

It's worth understanding the difference between how transient shapers and compressors work. Compressors are threshold-dependent; they trigger based on a the signal level (likely peak or RMS) passing a fixed point. Transient shapers are threshold-independent; they trigger based on the rate of increase of signal level regardless of the absolute signal level. So a compressor will affect transients only above a certain volume level whereas a transient shaper can affect all transients, both loud and quiet. This can be particularly useful for complex transient-rich material like acoustic guitars.

[chemicalfan]

Thanks for the reply, that has helped a little
I'm a little unsure of the difference in end result (a bit like FM vs PD synthesis). Is it fair to suggest the result of a transient shaper is similar to having a compressor on a really low threshold? I know it's not really comparable, I'm just struggling in my head whether it's worth me checking out transient shapers, or whether I should just stick with compression?

[Jafo]

It's worth understanding the difference between how transient shapers and compressors work. Compressors are threshold-dependent; they trigger based on a the signal level (likely peak or RMS) passing a fixed point. Transient shapers are threshold-independent; they trigger based on the rate of increase of signal level regardless of the absolute signal level. So a compressor will affect transients only above a certain volume level whereas a transient shaper can affect all transients, both loud and quiet. This can be particularly useful for complex transient-rich material like acoustic guitars.

To expand on this excellent description, it's a difference between just plain level (a compressor) and a change in level over a given period of time (transient shaper). If a sound slowly swells in volume (didn't Zoroaster say that?), a compressor will clamp down on the volume, but a transient shaper won't. If a sound quickly changes volume, a compressor won't catch it unless it crosses a threshhold volume; but a transient shaper will.

[chemicalfan]

Cool, I get that now. So a compressor would squash a pad sound, whereas a transient shaper would ignore it all the way to clipping - makes sense as there's no transients (well, you know what I mean).

Typically, transient shaping is put hand in hand with drums, or at least some transient-heavy materials like picked guitars/bass, or percussive synths - where there are sharp transients, this is where my confusion is. A compressor/limiter will surely work in a similar way, especially where each transient is digitally the same (as in electronic music)? In fact, if transient shapers have a frequency element (they seem to all include an EQ/filter of some kind), they can't perform "transparent" compression in the same way, where it's only the dynamics affected? Or, are they in fact better, as you don't have to EQ separately? Is it purely about time-saving with transient shapers, as the dynamics & EQ are intrinsically linked, with the trade-off being less control? Or do they bring different possibilities to the table - the ability to alter the timbre of transients in ways not possible with traditional compression & EQ?

Sorry if these questions are kinda dumb....this is the "getting started" forum after all!

[chemicalfan]

I had a thought about hats earlier, and that on something like a closed hat, a normal compressor would barely act due to the short duration (I guess a super quick VCA would, might not sound good though) - would a transient shaper work/sound better? As in, do they have an attack, or are they like a limiter in that respect?

[Winstontaneous]

I had a thought about hats earlier, and that on something like a closed hat, a normal compressor would barely act due to the short duration (I guess a super quick VCA would, might not sound good though) - would a transient shaper work/sound better? As in, do they have an attack, or are they like a limiter in that respect?

It depends on which transient shaper you're using.

Metric Halo's Tranisient Control is the only one I have that lets you set attack/release times for both the initial transient and sustain portions.

[chemicalfan]

Does the attack go down to zero? If not, apart from the fact it will detect a difference between the attack & sustain portions, and treat them separately, really struggling to understand why they are better than a compressor? Or at least, a consideration when processing dynamics.

[Winstontaneous]

Does the attack go down to zero? If not, apart from the fact it will detect a difference between the attack & sustain portions, and treat them separately, really struggling to understand why they are better than a compressor? Or at least, a consideration when processing dynamics.

They're not "better" than a compressor - they are tools that may be more or less appropriate for a given job (but creative misuse can also give good results). The simplest explanation I can think of is that compressors use detection circuits to only process sonics above/below a certain volume threshold while transient shapers process signals regardless of volume.

I'm not at my music computer now but IIRC the MH Transient Control Attack gets close or near 0. When you start changing transients/dynamics instantly you can get distortion and other artifacts, which is why Metric Halo also calls it a waveshaper.

IMO the best way to understand transient shapers is using them to process individual drum/percussion elements...like reducing sustain to eliminate snare rattle, increasing attack to give a bass drum more punch/click, increasing sustain so an acoustic kick approaches the ring of a Roland 808 or 909.

[Aether Music]

It's worth understanding the difference between how transient shapers and compressors work. Compressors are threshold-dependent; they trigger based on a the signal level (likely peak or RMS) passing a fixed point. Transient shapers are threshold-independent; they trigger based on the rate of increase of signal level regardless of the absolute signal level. So a compressor will affect transients only above a certain volume level whereas a transient shaper can affect all transients, both loud and quiet. This can be particularly useful for complex transient-rich material like acoustic guitars.

To expand on this excellent description, it's a difference between just plain level (a compressor) and a change in level over a given period of time (transient shaper). If a sound slowly swells in volume (didn't Zoroaster say that?), a compressor will clamp down on the volume, but a transient shaper won't. If a sound quickly changes volume, a compressor won't catch it unless it crosses a threshhold volume; but a transient shaper will.

Ur only part right. Ur right at the end however a transientshaper is not like a compressor with alot of threshold. That would completely ruinnnnn your dynamic and RMS. I think alot of you are coming from the world of Pop, jazz and rock where you would want that snappy, over compressed sound, however music has ebolved in LUFS and clarity and that would no longer be your go to approach for transient design as we now have a full on process for definitive transient designing and controlling. Not just a preset on a comp that allows transients to pass thru, that gives the EFFECT of louder transients. The difference in the 2, transient designers are essentially Upward compressors. The compression is applied to transiemt and the rest of the sound, ( rms or macro dynamics ) is left uncompressed. Where as with a compressor the transient ia left dry, and the main signal is compressed.

For example if u finished a mastered track but want to pump the transients with a limiter or compressor you may completely destroy your master with too much compression.m as a mastered or even mixed song is already tonally where you want it.
(No offense but i personally think the lack of understanding of this difference signifies ones age and genre lol but thata my perspective)

[Aether Music]

It's worth understanding the difference between how transient shapers and compressors work. Compressors are threshold-dependent; they trigger based on a the signal level (likely peak or RMS) passing a fixed point. Transient shapers are threshold-independent; they trigger based on the rate of increase of signal level regardless of the absolute signal level. So a compressor will affect transients only above a certain volume level whereas a transient shaper can affect all transients, both loud and quiet. This can be particularly useful for complex transient-rich material like acoustic guitars.

This is perfect. Also to mention, look at transient shapers, deessers and spectral shapers like a preset on a compressor except the process has been looked into and taken further.
So u can get similiar results with a compressor but it won't be the same as the process has been expanded. Thats the key

[DJ Warmonger]

Well, iZotope plugins all have visual display of original and processed waveform so you can get the idea of what the plugin is doing. The same for Ableton built-in devices and a plenty of other plugins around.

As to boutique compressors, they usually add some nonlinearity (analog-modelled or whatnot) which obscures the effect.