Wotja 22 - Generative Music App & Plug-in Host (Free, Pro; AUv3 / VST3)

[zzz00m]

This is all so puzzling.

However, I had a light-bulb moment, and have just dug-back to a report last month from a Wotja Beta tester, for whom MIDI routing simply wasn't working.

The solution - bizarrely - was as simple as this:
"I just uninstalled LoopBE and now MIDI routing with the Wotja plugin works again!"

I hope that helps. I certainly can't explain why it would have helped, but it resolved the problem.

@impete

Thanks, I wish it was that simple, but I do not use LoopBe, or anything else that could interfere with my computer's audio and MIDI.

I built this computer new in 2020, and added a new Focusrite USB Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen audio interface, with factory ASIO drivers. I have 5 DAWs installed and hundreds of plugins. They have all been super stable on this system since day one. Wotja is the only plugin that I have any major issues with. I have been building PC's and running music software on them for over 20 years.

I have spent a couple of days going over the PC top to bottom, scratching my head, reinstalling my audio drivers and performing a factory reset on the interface. No improvement! I finally rolled the VST3 back to 22.0.10 which solved the problems on most of my DAWs.

I initially started seeing major problems starting with VST3 version 22.0.11.

There is something else going on. Not griping, but just trying to help keep the focus on problem solving. I'm satisfied with 22.0.10 for the moment, and am able to use that version of the plugin, so not a showstopper for me personally. I hope for the sake of your product and other users that you get the issue solved!

All the best, and just let me know if you would like me to test anything for you!

[impete]

All the best, and just let me know if you would like me to test anything for you!

Thank you very much

I have some sort of theory bubbling under, and was wondering if this is maybe related to the audio block sizes of your audio device driver - as the audio blocks delivered through your driver are ultimately what dictate audio/MIDI timings, and how packets of audio and MIDI get bundled together through your DAW's processing pipelines.

I'm only kicking the tyres here, but am just speculating that if the block sizes were really small, then perhaps that affects of MIDI events adversely.

Therefore - do you have any option with your audio device to adjust the block sizes? And if so, it might be worth experimenting. Perhaps there are some other related properties in this area of system configuration that you might be able to experiment with adjusting.

Software engineering - so very similar to being a detective, at times!

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

Duplicate

[impete]

Another duplicate

[zzz00m]

I have some sort of theory bubbling under, and was wondering if this is maybe related to the audio block sizes of your audio device driver - as the audio blocks delivered through your driver are ultimately what dictate audio/MIDI timings, and how packets of audio and MIDI get bundled together through your DAW's processing pipelines.

I'm only kicking the tyres here, but am just speculating that if the block sizes were really small, then perhaps that affects of MIDI events adversely.

Therefore - do you have any option with your audio device to adjust the block sizes? And if so, it might be worth experimenting. Perhaps there are some other related properties in this area of system configuration that you might be able to experiment with adjusting.

By block sizes, are you referring to the audio buffer size, in samples? If so that is user adjustable, and I have defaulted my buffer size recently to 512 samples at a 44.1 KHz sample rate for recent testing, to allow a bit of extra breathing room. Although I can usually run mine all the way down to 64 samples if my load is not to heavy. Running on Intel i5 with 6-cores locked at 4.3GHz.

Or were you referring to some sort of low level audio block coding for the DSP? I'm sure that would be hard coded in the manufacturer's driver.

[zzz00m]

[dupe - deleted]

[impete]

By block sizes, are you referring to the audio buffer size, in samples?

Yes, that’s the one!

Pete

[JamminFool]

@impete

it seems unlikely that changing the block size of the audio driver would explain why switching back to v22.0.10 would fix his issues. i'm assuming, of course, that he didn't change both at the same time.

my problem also seem to be tied to versions after v22.0.10.

which makes me wonder: is it possible that you updated your builds to the latest version of JUCE for versions after v22.0.10?

Waveform also uses JUCE, so I wonder if there is a problem in the underlying framework. Just a thought.

[zzz00m]

@impete

it seems unlikely that changing the block size of the audio driver would explain why switching back to v22.0.10 would fix his issues. i'm assuming, of course, that he didn't change both at the same time.

my problem also seem to be tied to versions after v22.0.10.

which makes me wonder: is it possible that you updated your builds to the latest version of JUCE for versions after v22.0.10?

Waveform also uses JUCE, so I wonder if there is a problem in the underlying framework. Just a thought.

I left the block size at a generous 512 samples @ 44.1 KHz sampling rate for my A/B testing with 22.1.0 vs. 22.0.10.

Not sure that it may only be limited to JUCE in the host, because 4 out of 5 DAWs here have an issue with 22.1.0, although out of them, only Waveform is JUCE based. Whatever changed in the VST3 after 22.0.10 is where I would examine the code.

What is weird is that Ableton Live 11.0.12 seems to be immune to this issue, and is undoubtedly the most robust audio engine I have worked with. Reaper v6.46 comes in second, as it almost works, but I get stuck MIDI notes when the transport is stopped after play, where in 22.0.10 I don't.

[JamminFool]

yes, i agree. i doubt it is limited to JUCE, and perhaps may not even be related. but something changed from when you demonstrated that my problem scenario worked in 22.0.10 to now.

so i was just trying to focus on what may have changed in the interim, and i noticed that there was a recent drop of JUCE, so I was just speculating.

i just want it to work. it is very frustrating that there has been no acknowledgement of what appears to be a regression.

re: ableton live, it maps everything to channel 1 anyway. so it is not difficult to imagine that some other "massaging" of the MIDI data is occurring to make it work in their "walled MIDI garden"

[zzz00m]

re: ableton live, it maps everything to channel 1 anyway. so it is not difficult to imagine that some other "massaging" of the MIDI data is occurring to make it work in their "walled MIDI garden"

Well I'm certainly not at expert in Ableton, and haven't attempted any complex MIDI routing in in until now.

But I finally figured out how to send any MIDI channel from Wotja to a plugin on another track. I now have a multi-MIDI set that sends ch1-4 from Wotja to 2 to other instrument tracks. Success!

[JamminFool]

re: ableton live, it maps everything to channel 1 anyway. so it is not difficult to imagine that some other "massaging" of the MIDI data is occurring to make it work in their "walled MIDI garden"

Well I'm certainly not at expert in Ableton, and haven't attempted any complex MIDI routing in in until now.

But I finally figured out how to send any MIDI channel from Wotja to a plugin on another track. I now have a multi-MIDI set that sends ch1-4 from Wotja to 2 to other instrument tracks. Success!

huh? in ableton live?
how?
ableton maps all MIDI to channel 1, which you can then easily route to any other track. but not by MIDI channel, as far as i know. so all tracks are getting all the midi from the sending track.

so if you have this working, i MUST know how?

[zzz00m]

huh? in ableton live?
how?
ableton maps all MIDI to channel 1, which you can then easily route to any other track. but not by MIDI channel, as far as i know. so all tracks are getting all the midi from the sending track.

so if you have this working, i MUST know how?

This!

Here is an example of sending MIDI ch 1-4 from Wotja to a couple of multi instruments on track 4 and 7, respectively. Track 4 is receiving ch 1-2, and Track 7 is receiving ch 3-4.

This is accomplished by inserting empty MIDI tracks before each instrument track target, and using them to pass the MIDI through. This way each channel is represented by an empty MIDI track.

As you can see, each empty MIDI track provides for "MIDI From" and "MIDI To", with the actual channel selectable in the bottom dropdown in each MIDI track.

Tip: don't forget to arm the tracks for record, the little red buttons at the bottom. Don't ask me how I know this ...

[JamminFool]

hi zz000m,
ok, that does indeed send the MIDI data to the destination midi channel, but the point is that are you sure that it is uniquely the midi channel data as sent? if you put MIDI Monitor on each of the MIDI tracks receiving MIDI from Wotja, you will see that by the time it arrives at the destination, it is all on channel 1 (even though you are directing it to a unique destination channel in the multitimbral instrument). that's what Ableton Live does. it maps all the MIDI data from a VST to channel 1. you lose the unique data on channel 1 vs channel 2, etc.

so all of the instruments are just doubling each other since they are all getting the same data. in other words, you are not routing by MIDI channel. you are routing all data to midi channels.

this feature in Live is intended for unique sending tracks. so: track 1 can send to Kontakt channel 1 and Track 2 can send to Kontakt channel 2. but Track 1 cannot send by channel to Kontakt channel 1 AND Kontakt channel 2.

also, you don't need to arm the track for record. instead, switch the Monitor button on the receiving tracks from Auto to In.

[zzz00m]

hi zz000m,
ok, that does indeed send the MIDI data to the destination midi channel, but the point is that are you sure that it is uniquely the midi channel data as sent? if you put MIDI Monitor on each of the MIDI tracks receiving MIDI from Wotja, you will see that by the time it arrives at the destination, it is all on channel 1 (even though you are directing it to a unique destination channel in the multitimbral instrument). that's what Ableton Live does. it maps all the MIDI data from a VST to channel 1. you lose the unique data on channel 1 vs channel 2, etc.

so all of the instruments are just doubling each other since they are all getting the same data. in other words, you are not routing by MIDI channel. you are routing all data to midi channels.

this feature in Live is intended for unique sending tracks. so: track 1 can send to Kontakt channel 1 and Track 2 can send to Kontakt channel 2. but Track 1 cannot send by channel to Kontakt channel 1 AND Kontakt channel 2.

also, you don't need to arm the track for record. instead, switch the Monitor button on the receiving tracks from Auto to In.

Hi @JamminFool

I stand corrected. I didn't notice that the same data was being doubled for ch 2 (and above). I saw that I was receiving data for ch 2 at the destination instrument that was specifically set to receive only on ch 2.

Well the good news is that Reaper definitely allows you to route MIDI channels as desired!

And yes, monitor "In" works as well as to monitor a track. "Auto" only works when you arm. Either method works. Doesn't really matter unless you are actually recording.