Steinberg Discontinuing VST2 Support in its products

[zvenx]

As I have said when I did bring this up elswhere, I have indeed read on their forums employees/developers criticial some of the SB moves, or acknowledge some things that they wish were different.

Re: your argument about larger marketshare if Cubendo supports vst3 features better. They were the ones who also created vst2, couldn't that argument be also made about vst2?


I am not sure that is indeed the consensus though or the majority, I think like most things in human life, those who do not like something are usually the ones who complain or speak up the most.

I like to give the example of Waves who probably are the biggest plugin developers and have had vst3 plugins out for over a decade, what are they doing that these consensus/majority you speak of aren't?

Btw for the record again, I am also not a fan of them dumping future Cubendo versions from being vst2 compatible.
rsp

[Teksonik]

As a beta tester for companies other than Steinberg I can say in my experience VST3 versions of plugins tend to be more problematic than the VST2 versions.

As an owner of hundreds of plugin licenses I can say in my experience VST3 plugins are more problematic in use than the VST2 versions which is why I still use VST2 unless there is only a VST3.

It seems to this casual observer that the VST3 format may be the victim of developer ego and arrogance which is something those involved with CLAP should take heed of....

[zvenx]

As a beta tester for companies other than Steinberg I can say in my experience VST3 versions of plugins tend to be more problematic than the VST2 versions.

....

And indeed I have both sides of that experience beta testing for other companies than SB.
That is indeed some have more issues with the vst3 than vst2, but also I have encountered some who have more issues with vst2 plugins than vst3.

For the most part in my experience there is a high correlation with that line and how long the developers have been in business... That is the ones who have been in business for awhile (that is years invested developing for vst2) usually fall for the most part in the former, and those who are newer developers in the latter... (no I don't beta test for waves who indeed though vst3 compliant for yearsss indeed have had years of time developing for vst2).

rsp

[Teksonik]

Well none of us can answer why other developers and users feel VST3 is inferior based on years of experience and Steinberg does not.

If there are glaring omissions or faults in the VST3 format that other developers can spot then why Steinberg can not remains a mystery.

[Erisian]

[anttimaatteri]

steinberg does have support?

[zvenx]

I think in a lot of cases it is also a difference in paradigm. What SB thinks is the function of the plug in vs the function of the host and some developers views of those functions.
Also after free reign in vst2, vst3 structured may require a lot of redoing stuff in your plugin in a completely new and different way.

I like many of us here, admire/love/worship Urs. I think he makes the best plugin synths overall. He has created a company that has great customer support, ridiculous amount of new features added without cost to the customer. He is always open with his plans etc and spends a lot of time on kvr (time he should be working on Zebra 3 , but I digress ). I bring him up as just an example, because he has a different view point of vst3 than SB.

Had I not been privy to the other side of the argument from SB's side I too would be firmly on the vst3 sucks, what the hell was SB thinking, Train, and I can understand therefore why many here have that point of view, but just be open to the consideration that there may be an opposing view point too (SBs pov).

rsp

[whyterabbyt]

"I can confirm most of the stuff Markus wrote, or Urs in other threads about VST3 limitations and what already was possible with VST2." yes, as workarounds/hacks.

Do VST3 still need workarounds/hacks for MIDI CC?

[Markus Krause]

Yes

[whyterabbyt]

Aw, I was waiting for zvenx's answer.

[zvenx]

See this is a perfect example of the the difference in paradigm.

If I remember correctly SB's initial pov was that the host is should be responsible for the midi cc not the plugin, I think they relented and added that in vst3. How well it works I am not sure.. I did recently read either urs or ed commenting on it (I believe to their pov it was still a wip).

Some of SB's point of view on midi cc is in this thread for instance:

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst3-and ... l/201879/2


And in general if you wanted to hear SB's take read anything by Arne or Yvan either on the developer forum here or in the SB's developer forum, linked above.

rsp

[Teksonik]

Had I not been privy to the other side of the argument from SB's side I too would be firmly on the vst3 sucks, what the hell was SB thinking, Train, and I can understand therefore why many here have that point of view, but just be open to the consideration that there may be an opposing view point too (SBs pov).

Point of view means nothing, it's how things perform in the real world that matters.

If there are faults in the VST3 format and SB doesn't recognize those faults then their "point of view" is doing no one any good. Them, other developers, or the end users.

At any rate your loyalty to SB and my disdain for them due to their treatment of me as a customer are almost certainly skewing our opinions.

To be honest I don't care one bit what format my plugins are...VST2, 3, 4, CLAP, I don't care.

All I care about is whether my plugins are stable, efficient, lightweight, and fully featured.

If developer ego, arrogance, incompetence, or corporate paralysis work against that goal then there is a problem that needs to be solved.

CLAP is a response to that problem and may be the solution. Only time will tell.

[zvenx]

Indeed. Only time will tell.
Rsp

[pdxindy]

If there are glaring omissions or faults in the VST3 format that other developers can spot then why Steinberg can not remains a mystery.

Of course Steinberg can... they make what suits their business. They have no reason to be helpful to other developers who are competitors of theirs.

[pdxindy]

See this is a perfect example of the the difference in paradigm.

If I remember correctly SB's initial pov was that the host is should be responsible for the midi cc not the plugin

Someones point of view is shaped by their own interests. Of course the people that work at Steinberg will have a point of view that supports Steinberg business interests.

As a steward of an industry wide plugin format, they should not have a strong point of view. That is why there is a fundamental conflict of interest.