Steinberg Discontinuing VST2 Support in its products

[SparkySpark]

The only "I am on board with clap" part for me is that it will allow outputs that will include vst3, that is some of the louder developers complaining about vst3 will be able to output vst3 hopefully with less issues and complaints. Other than that no, it will be another format yet to beta test and trouble shoot and develop for, already each DAW and each format that exist currently have their own intricacies and got ya's.

These same developers who have EULAs of their own, mind you.

rsp

Quite a while ago in this thread, there were some quite good things pointed at regarding CLAP. I understand what you mean, but hopefully it's not going to be "yet another format". Let's hope it lives up to the hype.

[Dewdman42]

I don’t think using clap to wrap up vst3 will be any more or less reliable then what a lot of devs are doing now which is to dev in vst2 and wrap to vst3. It will have similar Reliability. The main advantage will be removing the need for vst2 license and endless discussions about whether Steinberg might sue.

Vst3 plugins will continue to have midi problems that can affect SOME midi and Inst plugins….regardless of whether they are implemented as native vst3, wrapped vst2 or wrapped clap. That is just an inherent flaw in vst3 design that can (under certain Midi use cases ) impact anyone using vst3 plugins of any kind in any host.

If and when clap hosting also becomes more prevalent, then clap plugins can operate midi correctly without having to be wrapped as vst2 or vst3, but probably not in cubase which will probably only support vst3 hosting.

I think vst3 should be relegated to the same status as AAX. A proprietary format that is only meaningful to cubase users with its pros and cons. Everyone else on other daws can use a more universal, neutral plugin format such as AU or CLAP or yea maybe LV2 in the end who knows, but one that is unencumbered by self interested license restraints and threats.

The fact that avid requires everyone to use their proprietary plugin format or Steinberg requires everyone to use theirs is on them!! Neither one of them have provided a true universal industry standard plugin format. Only Apple has done so with AU, but it’s not on windows or Linux so they haven’t either.

The industry still needs that true universal neutral format. Vst isn’t it.

Maybe it will be clap

[sQeetz]

i don't believe CLAP will gain any traction to be honest. As much as I hope it should, though.

[zvenx]

...
Vst3 plugins will continue to have midi problems that can affect SOME midi and Inst plugins….regardless of whether they are implemented as native vst3, wrapped vst2 or wrapped clap. That is just an inherent flaw in vst3 design that will impact anyone using vst3 plugins of any kind in any host.

...

would you like to tell me what flaws waves vsti's or steinberg vsti's vst3s have for instance?

These broad sweeping remarks of yours again. smh

rsp

[Dewdman42]

Maybe later I will send you a detailed PM. You can also google for many discussions on these points that are already out there explaining these design problems. I’m not sure why you’re mentioning Waves now. Vst3 has design problems in the api regardless of who implements it. The statement I am making is factual. Do your homework and stop evangelizing for Steinberg

[zvenx]

I mention Waves because they have been doing vst3 for over ten years and have vst3 synths...

" That is just an inherent flaw in vst3 design that will impact anyone using vst3 plugins of any kind in any host."

So therefore waves plugins should suffer too..

What I do know is that some not all developers have had issues with vst3.. Some Not All!!! Hence why I am using Waves as an example.

You keep once again saying this things without data to back you up. The last time I asked you for data to prove your point, you did not provide any such to put it mildly.
No need for PM, put it here where everyone can see..



rsp

[nix808]

I'd welcome CLAP,
but just the abbreviation don't sound that cool
..what about SUB?
substrate universal binary
..or OPS
open plug standard/strata

[Dewdman42]

The vst3 design flaws are well known by those that know, which apparently does not include you. Vst3 midi design flaws can affect any manufacturer including waves of course.

It has to do with the fact that vst3 does not process raw midi. There are a number of issues that have come up related to that. For example, there are certain use cases where the serial nature of midi is lost because of the way they abstracted it and this can cause problems in some midi use cases. Other problems too, all stemming from the loss of raw midi processing. You can use google yourself and find plenty of stuff written already on this topic and problems that developers have had with vst3 midi, I’m sorry but it’s not my responsibility right now to re explain it to you in detail.

[zvenx]

It is not the explanation that is the issue for me, it is your broad,.. ALL.. and indeed that is not the case, yet you continue to use it like you know this with 100% certainty.

That is my issue with your statements.

Some? of course.. All.. hell no.

But that wouldn't stop you from pontificating.

rsp

[Dewdman42]

Well I don’t really care what your problem with me is I am being factual. Do your homework and stop arguing endlessly over how you interpret my words.

[zvenx]

yep.. cause once again, no evidence required.
Carry on.
Preach the 'facts' some more.

rsp

[sQeetz]

would you like to tell me what flaws waves vsti's or steinberg vsti's vst3s have for instance?

These broad sweeping remarks of yours again. smh

I can tell you one which you are aware of since you've been on the thread about Backbone
Steinberg's Backbone doesn't like MIDI 2.0. It refuses to work while it is on

[pdxindy]

It is not the explanation that is the issue for me, it is your broad,.. ALL.. and indeed that is not the case, yet you continue to use it like you know this with 100% certainty.

That is my issue with your statements.

Some? of course.. All.. hell no.

But that wouldn't stop you from pontificating.

rsp

You are starting to get really aggro and rude.

[Music Engineer]

@zvenx: well, he literally said that "SOME" midi effects and instruments will be affected - where the all caps is part of the original quote...which you even quoted yourself. perhaps those plugins that don't have any problems use only a subset of midi that happens to be unproblematic in vst3?

[zvenx]

would you like to tell me what flaws waves vsti's or steinberg vsti's vst3s have for instance?

These broad sweeping remarks of yours again. smh

I can tell you one which you are aware of since you've been on the thread about Backbone
Steinberg's Backbone doesn't like MIDI 2.0. It refuses to work while it is on

ooh, but from what I understand a lot of plugins don't work with midi 2.0 yet...but isn't that issue in logic using au?
I meant steinberg vst3 plugins.
My bad.
rsp