Steinberg Discontinuing VST2 Support in its products

[Music Engineer]

You are right, I copied the wrong thing.. is there an au-sdk agreement that Apple requires?

i don't think so. Urs said on the other thread:

AU is fully open source and liberally licensed (a derivative of BSD I think).

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=574861&p=8297769

[zvenx]

Ahh.. thanks
rsp

[StroboMarc]

Funny how some try to compare the x86 to x64 transition, which was a fundamental architecture change, with an arbitrary "no" from a single company, without any technical reasons. 10 years of developing rather VST2 than VST3 have shown this format is a failure.

It's not comparable to for example the transition from RTAS to AAX which had exactly 1 major version as transition period and then it was gone (fair point, it's a single DAW format which I hope VST3 becomes too and the others would use a proper alternative). And it solved actual issues like the 32/64bit stuff or a complete audio engine overhaul which lead to being able to load almost twice as many plugins. The real advantages of VST3 are... ? Couldn't name one besides a sidechain button popping up in the GUI!? I get it's only beneficial to Steinberg and that's their right. The more happy I am about alternatives.

Got first confronted with CLAP not in a forum but in a developer beta tester group, where they've dicussed the pros/cons/extensions/roadmap. And I'm happy to see it's already in a more welcome state than VST3.

[chk071]

Funny how some try to compare the x86 to x64 transition, which was a fundamental architecture change, with an arbitrary "no" from a single company, without any technical reasons. 10 years of developing rather VST2 than VST3 have shown this format is a failure.

It's not comparable to for example the transition from RTAS to AAX which had exactly 1 major version as transition period and then it was gone (fair point, it's a single DAW format which I hope VST3 becomes too and the others would use a proper alternative). And it solved actual issues like the 32/64bit stuff or a complete audio engine overhaul which lead to being able to load almost twice as many plugins. The real advantages of VST3 are... ? Couldn't name one besides a sidechain button popping up in the GUI!? I get it's only beneficial to Steinberg and that's their right. The more happy I am about alternatives.

Got first confronted with CLAP not in a forum but in a developer beta tester group, where they've dicussed the pros/cons/extensions/roadmap. And I'm happy to see it's already in a more welcome state than VST3.

Is it about that? What is more welcome?

Was the switch from Apple to M1 CPU's a welcome opportunity for developers to learn something new? Or did they have to adapt to it, because the market dictated that they have to do M1 native plugins or applications?

Frankly, it doesn't even matter if VST3 is superior or inferior. It's simply a format which is present in a big part of the market. Whether you want to support it or not should rather not be a matter of willingness, unless you don't want to earn money.

Yes, I know, what an asshole I am for saying that.

[pdxindy]

Funny how some try to compare the x86 to x64 transition, which was a fundamental architecture change, with an arbitrary "no" from a single company, without any technical reasons. 10 years of developing rather VST2 than VST3 have shown this format is a failure.

It's not comparable to for example the transition from RTAS to AAX which had exactly 1 major version as transition period and then it was gone (fair point, it's a single DAW format which I hope VST3 becomes too and the others would use a proper alternative). And it solved actual issues like the 32/64bit stuff or a complete audio engine overhaul which lead to being able to load almost twice as many plugins. The real advantages of VST3 are... ? Couldn't name one besides a sidechain button popping up in the GUI!? I get it's only beneficial to Steinberg and that's their right. The more happy I am about alternatives.

Got first confronted with CLAP not in a forum but in a developer beta tester group, where they've dicussed the pros/cons/extensions/roadmap. And I'm happy to see it's already in a more welcome state than VST3.

I would like to see CLAP gain wide acceptance and VST3 become relevant only to Steinberg's own DAWs. Then they can do whatever they want and nobody will care cause it no longer affects anyone else.

Steinberg has been a bad steward of an industry wide standard and that needs to end... however it happens.

[crickey13]

Is it about that? What is more welcome?

Was the switch from Apple to M1 CPU's a welcome opportunity for developers to learn something new? Or did they have to adapt to it, because the market dictated that they have to do M1 native plugins or applications?

Frankly, it doesn't even matter if VST3 is superior or inferior. It's simply a format which is present in a big part of the market. Whether you want to support it or not should rather not be a matter of willingness, unless you don't want to earn money.

Yes, I know, what an asshole I am for saying that.

I really don't want to defend Mac, but didn't M1s at least bring considerable performance improvements to the table? With VST3, the improvements are really debatable, not to mention some things are actually less stable, so the only party benefitting from this disruptive turn of events is Steinberg.

The fact that plugin users have to be told what these supposed benefits of the VST3 format are really speaks for itself, doesn't it. The plugin developers are clearly discontented with the format as it is. There is no give-and-take in this, it is just Steinberg doing as it pleases. And hey, that's okay, it's just that the rest of the field doesn't have to rave about it.

[zvenx]

There are three plugin platforms of note.
AAX, AU and VST.

AAX is only used by ProTools which might still be the DAW of choice in professional usage.
AU only works on Mac's.

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

[vurt]

There are three plugin platforms of note.
AAX, AU and VST.

AAX is only used by ProTools which might still be the DAW of choice in professional usage.
AU only works on Mac's.

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

are you willing to stake anything?
eg ill never use clap, that's how sure i am!!!

just so in 5 years, we can laugh about the time you said you'd never use clap and now look at you!!!
all clap happy!!

[MirkoVanHauten]

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

*VST2. And yeah, let's see. We didn't need our fantasy to see where VST3 is after even more than 5 years

[zvenx]

There are three plugin platforms of note.
AAX, AU and VST.

AAX is only used by ProTools which might still be the DAW of choice in professional usage.
AU only works on Mac's.

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

are you willing to stake anything?
eg ill never use clap, that's how sure i am!!!

just so in 5 years, we can laugh about the time you said you'd never use clap and now look at you!!!
all clap happy!!

lol I am not saying I will never use clap... I am saying it won't replace vst as the industry standard.

u-he is one of my favourite developers, next thing Zebra3 is Clap only and I am on the outside looking in and wanting to join the party .. No I will never say that

rsp

[zvenx]

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

*VST2. And yeah, let's see. We didn't need our fantasy to see where VST3 is after even more than 5 years

There are actually a whole heap of "big" developers (and by "big" I mean well known ones who develop a lot of plugins that are currently not vst3) about to (and by about to I mean within the next six months or so) vst3 versions.

rsp

[crickey13]

There are actually a whole heap of "big" developers (and by "big" I mean well known ones who develop a lot of plugins that are currently not vst3) about to (and by about to I mean within the next six months or so) vst3 versions.

rsp

Yeah, and they will put them in VST3 wrapper, vive l'innovation. Or are you seriously trying to argue they will develop their plugins from scratch in VST3?

[pdxindy]

There are three plugin platforms of note.
AAX, AU and VST.

AAX is only used by ProTools which might still be the DAW of choice in professional usage.
AU only works on Mac's.

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

VST2 is the industry standard. VST3 is something different and isn't the format developers develop on.

CLAP would not have a chance except that Steinberg is doing its best to do away with the current standard. So there is nothing to usurp. If Steinberg were committed to supporting VST2 into the future, companies like u-he would not be switching from developing with VST2 to CLAP. They are doing so out of necessity because VST3 is not a suitable VST2 replacement for them.

CLAP (or something like it) is necessary given the current situation. That is why it has a solid chance of being wide spread.

[Spencer Maddox]

I'm not going to pretend I am smart enough to understand half of this conversation, but can anyone explain why steinberg is so dead-set on killing a stable and universally accepted format in exchange for a format that hadn't been able to become the industry standard despite existing for well over a decade now. I am struggling to understand what they have to GAIN in this situation. Especially as I see a shockingly large amount of people threatening to leave Cubase.

[vurt]

There are three plugin platforms of note.
AAX, AU and VST.

AAX is only used by ProTools which might still be the DAW of choice in professional usage.
AU only works on Mac's.

VST is cross platform, I would venture to say it is probably the most ubiquitous plugin format in music.

Believing Clap as a format will usurp it is almost like believing Linux will one day surpass Windows in the number of users.

We all have our fantasies...

Let us see in 5 years where Clap as a format is.

rsp

are you willing to stake anything?
eg ill never use clap, that's how sure i am!!!

just so in 5 years, we can laugh about the time you said you'd never use clap and now look at you!!!
all clap happy!!

lol I am not saying I will never use clap... I am saying it won't replace vst as the industry standard.

u-he is one of my favourite developers, next thing Zebra3 is Clap only and I am on the outside looking in and wanting to join the party .. No I will never say that

rsp

booo you're no fun!!!

we need more betting on the future of plug Ins! why should horses get all the action?