If you had to stick to one DAW - and ONLY its native 1st party devices + sounds - which one would it be?

[apoclypse]

Sure, but you can no longer get updates to Alchemy, and a recent update to Mojave, an older Mac OS, killed Alchemy on my system. Apple blatantly bought Alchemy to drive Logic sales without regard to Alchemy customers. It's capitalism, it is what it is, but stand with my Windows Camel users on this one, if they want to call it theft I'm gonna agree. It might be legal but it ain't pretty.

LOL. Apple hasn't charged for an update to Logic Pro X since it came out. That makes no sense. The money Apple makes on Logic is a rounding error compared to what ever else they have going on. They bought Camel Audio for their tech and developers, Alchemy and Camel Phat were just a bonus. Just like when Apple bought Redmatica.

[pdxindy]

On the other side, I TBH do not really get, why for many of you, this modulation stuff in BW is so important.

You must not do much sound design.

2 things with Bitwig's modulation. First, it is exceptionally capable. Say I want to try some strange idea like play a note that has 3 stacked voices of the same pitch and then when I press down on the aftertouch, the 3 notes spread into a chord. And with MPE, that can be per note. Or I want to use the y axis on my Linnstrument so that each note has a few different arpeggiated patterns depending where on the Y axis I hold the note. All realtime, all expressive and playable and easy to control the nuance of what I am doing. If I have an idea I can make it so.

The second thing... Bitwig's modulation is easy and fluid to use. So not only can I try pretty much anything I can imagine, I can do it fast enough that I actually try it and without interruption to a creative flow. I got an idea, try it out in seconds, oops, doesn't sound like I imagined, move on. Doesn't feel heavy or burdensome to try stuff.

And of course, it works great for simple sounds too. I will often have note velocity modulating 4-6 or more parameters. Same with keytracking and adding a bit of randomization. Super fast and fluid. And so easy to see an overview. Select the device and the inspector shows all the mod sources, targets and depths and can all be edited right there in one place. It's freakin brilliant!

Even a simple saw wave, with the right modulation can become a beautiful, emotional lead instrument. There is nothing niche or nerdie about that.

[Tj Shredder]

I know Bitwig has a grid but are there tools for probability based stuff among it?

They added a bunch of extra probability tools in the last update which are most likely best in class... And if that's not enough you can transform it as complex as you wish in the Grid...

On the other side, I TBH do not really get, why for many of you, this modulation stuff in BW is so important. I mean it is nice - sure. But most modulation I can do in a synth plugin ITB, so why I should need to modulate from the DAW?

It is so great, that I do not bother to learn any modulation matrix within a given synth. As its straight forward to do it with Bitwigs modulators which are also way more flexible. If you don't want a boring lfo, just use a random walk. It puts life into anything you want. and its faster set up than opening the GUI of the VST you want to modulate... You open the GUI, wiggle the control you want to modulate and assign your modulator. You can even modulate parameters which are not modulatable within the plugin... You really stop using internal modulation as its so much easier to do it directly...

[antic604]

I know Bitwig has a grid but are there tools for probability based stuff among it?

Depends what you mean exactly.

Grid has S&Hs, LFOs, step sequencers, random ganerators, logic & math modules so you can basically build your own "probability based stuff" from that if you know what you need.

Also like @Tj said above - there's probability in many devices and even in piano roll. Bitwig lives & breahtes generative music

Check out #gridniks on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 37gw9cIYTi

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Thanks about the Bitwig stuff. I’ll probably stay with R11 Suite, but I will check bitwig manual. Nice to know there are alternatives if I go bored, or RS scare me away with their patronizing intelligence insulting campaigns; “Sound like your arse” or worse.

[xbitz]

^^^ just created, MIDI note triggerable Sequences

why would like to choose between them ?

[pdxindy]

I know Bitwig has a grid but are there tools for probability based stuff among it?

Bitwig has a number of ways to do probability stuff... both in the Grid and out. Likely any idea you have in mind can be done. And one can make a range of outputs... from totally random to deterministic and any combination in-between.

[machinesworking]

Apple blatantly bought Alchemy to drive Logic sales

Nope; they blatantly bought Camel Audio to get their hands on CA's resynthesis algorithms.

The truth is somewhere in the middle here. Alchemy and Camel Phat/Space live on in Logic, the most obvious one is Alchemy of course, but they did buy the whole package, including hiring the developer so yeah they bought Camel Audio. Mostly I'm annoyed that Alchemy is dead even on Mojave on a Mac, much less hanging on by a thread on PC.

[machinesworking]

Sure, but you can no longer get updates to Alchemy, and a recent update to Mojave, an older Mac OS, killed Alchemy on my system. Apple blatantly bought Alchemy to drive Logic sales without regard to Alchemy customers. It's capitalism, it is what it is, but stand with my Windows Camel users on this one, if they want to call it theft I'm gonna agree. It might be legal but it ain't pretty.

LOL. Apple hasn't charged for an update to Logic Pro X since it came out. That makes no sense. The money Apple makes on Logic is a rounding error compared to what ever else they have going on. They bought Camel Audio for their tech and developers, Alchemy and Camel Phat were just a bonus. Just like when Apple bought Redmatica.

They bought Logic, Redmatica, and Camel Audio to drive sales of Macs. It's really that simple. If you use Logic, it's great, if you don't it's annoying. I don't really use Logic anymore, so I find it annoying. I bought Logic, Camel Phat/Space, Alchemy, Redmatica's Autosampler and Sample Manager all before Apple bought them, so maybe I'm biased, because they all became slightly 1D in the sense you must use Logic or Mainstage to use them.

On the bright side Bluecats new audio/midi router should make using Alchemy (hosted in Mainstage) in DP, Live, Cubase etc. on a Mac easy, and facilitate using it on a PC with a cheap Mac as a slave. Have to check this out soon.

[apoclypse]

They bought Logic, Redmatica, and Camel Audio to drive sales of Macs.

Well, that's obvious but that's not what you wrote. Either way your inherent bias or not Apple did not steal Camel Audio. The Camel Audio guys sold themselves to Apple. Why not put the blame on them?

[EnGee]

I remember Camel Audio developers happiness when Apple decided to buy them! They didn't utter a word about it! Their mouths were sealed! Later after "uprising" in Windows crowd, they issued serial numbers for the owners for limited time. I don't see them victims of Apple as machinesworking is trying to portrait! Personally, I thought it a smart decision by them as going under Apple's ceiling is much secure way to continue in a time the plugins market didn't seem so encouraging, and why not developing without a headache knowing your daily job is secure "relatively" by a big company!

Also I don't understand people complaining about a plugin compatibility with an old OS! It happened one million times among those were using old OS wanting new plugins still supporting their "special" OS! God damn it! Either stay with old environment (hardware and software) and stay living in the past or upgrade!

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

^^^ just created, MIDI note triggerable Sequences

why would like to choose between them ?

Is this supposed to refer to anything I said above given the arrows up? I was not talking about midi triggerable sequences at all. Not even close.

[antic604]

^^^ just created, MIDI note triggerable Sequences

why would like to choose between them ?

Is this supposed to refer to anything I said above given the arrows up? I was not talking about midi triggerable sequences at all. Not even close.

Just enjoy the ride! @xbitz is rarely on-topic, but he's always insightful

[Synthack]

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