If you had to use only two DAWs (third party VSTs allowed) what would they be?

[FapFilter]

And you're right, of course; many do not have a "need" for a second DAW. I still think it's a great thing in that we have _any_ DAWs.

i didn't want to imply that noone should be needing more than one DAW.
After all, it's all about letting creativity flow.
It just happens that Reaper in my case does everything i need from a DAW
(still waiting for a proper Geist 2 replacement for ARM Macs though, which could also almost be classified as a full DAW focused on drum stuff)

I also have to confess that i use more than just one synth, one sampler, one reverb and one delay, even though technically i could be set with just one of each!

[xbitz]

Yes, next poll should be: “if you only had to use all DAWs and every single plugin in existence, which would they be?“

regarding this poll: that's easy for me, as the answer is Reaper

No need for a second one.
I actually demoed Bitwig yesterday for the first time and it's not for me.
Grant you, i'm an old fart and slow learner, but still.
Reaper plus third party plugins, including those that work around it's shortcomings, are everything i'd ever need (and then some)

Okay, you do that poll. Good luck!

And you're right, of course; many do not have a "need" for a second DAW. I still think it's a great thing in that we have _any_ DAWs. Musicians are buried now under a wealth of wonderful tools that didn't even exist in any regard 50-60 years ago and cost a fraction of the hardware they replace. Recording for fun or profit was way out of financial reach for most musicians not that long ago and now for a relative pittance, anyone can have a studio capable of challenging the sound quality (if not the musical quality as that's still thoroughly up to the human behind the machine) of professional studios.

So, if you're happy with just running Reaper, that's wonderful and, very seriously, more power to you. I'm sure that at one level many of us envy you. I think I could be exist with one DAW, but Bitwig opens up ideas to try that I might not consider (as I certainly do understand that it isn't for everyone). Some of this might be because of my preferred genres: mostly, I'm a jazz musician who has had a ton of "classical" (read: "art music") theory and composition classes at the undergrad and graduate level and I've always enjoyed them. Integrating them has been a challenge, but rewarding. Interestingly, Bitwig opens possibilities in that conceptual direction for me.

Cheers!

^^^ IMO after Bitwig worth checking the sound-shaping possibilities of UVI Falcon

don't know your needs but not sure that you need a secondary DAW

[dlandis]

Well, wish you good health and try to stay away from crowded area. I do have two stents implanted after a mini heart attack (was just in the beginning, so I was lucky). I'm doing a keto diet (mostly!) But I need months if not a year to get rid of about 20 kilos
Can you take the vaccine normally? I took my third booster, so I feel safe relatively.

Back to DAWs! Bitwig ha a wonderful modulation environment. It has also a great midi sequencer and nice audio editing. The main things I complain about are things I use a lot and my workflow depends on them. The markers (cues) system is really pathetic! Live has a better system, while S1 and Cubase are wonderful in such things!

Both Bitwig and Live have no way to play midi files by choosing a destination instrument. I have thousands of drums patterns and I especially like to use some professional patterns written (played) by pro drummers. This is especially useful in Rock, Blues or Funk styles.

Also, in both Bitwig and Live I can't show my 3rd party drums mapping, so no mappings for addictive drums or Battery 4 for example.

Arrangement is far better in S1 and Cubase due to their Linear nature from the beginning. And of course, mixing in the end is much better with Cubase and S1.

Anyway, some those absences in Bitwig and Live actually makes me work harder in the rhythm part, because I need to write/play what I want and choose the kit carefully (samples). I still prefer Live's samples over Bitwig and the beats come sounding better to me. Also the eq and compression are better in Live (in general most effects are better).

Anyway, the more I work with the four DAWs, the more I can reach the same result (if I use 3rd party instruments). So, I find more similarity in the end than differences. The only DAW that I feel really different and it can't click with me, is FL Studio!

Well, thanks much! I do have two the two Pfizers and one booster. I'm waiting to find out which way the doctors go with the fourth shot for me. Blessings to you as well! This pandemic period has not been fun for anyone with another medical condition, I fear.

The arrangement aspect is what I am interested in the most, I think. The clip view seems to be most unfamiliar to me and that's what seems to be driving my interest more than anything else. It really is so complementary to a linear approach.

My rhythm composition is probably odd compared to most in that I really try to play most, if not all, of what gets into the final work manually. My keyboard chops aren't amazing, but work well in a DAW environment and I use a WX5 (tenor and soprano saxes are my main acoustic horns) for most of the monophonic material, except, oddly, basses which I either play from the keyboard or my acoustic bass if appropriate (I have an aversion to frets for some reason, no clue why). Drums can be rough as I'm really not that much of a drummer, but, at least I do have a good handle on what makes a good drum track. I have used Stylus, BFD3, and a couple of other apps to produce drum tracks. I'm really hoping that at some point, Spectrasonic does an update for Stylus that includes a more formalized approach to fills. I'm sure it would be killer.

[dlandis]

I thought this might be fun

You should get out more...

If I did "get out more", I'd probably be dead by now. I am a heart transplant recipient which means (besides the fact that I wake up every morning knowing that the heart beating in my chest is someone else's) that I have an immuno-compromised system (meds that produce this effect are the only way tranplant recipients keep their received hearts, lungs, livers, etc. safely in their bodies); the doctors have repeatedly warned that while COVID is serious for everyone else, for me and others like me, it is a death sentence, period. I have literally been out only about 20 times since March 15, 2020, usually only to areas where I do not have to worry about meeting anyone else. I am always masked when out in public and always social distance. My wife does the same. Yet, I am blessed in that I am among the living; I should not have survived the heart attack or coma that brought me to this place and the manner in which it became necessary for me to receive the transplant is particularly painful as it includes personal betrayals of trust on the friendship and familial levels.

FWIW.

But if you simply do not enjoy the poll and/or discussion (forgive me if I'm misreading your intent with your remark), do not comment. Obviously, based on the numbers partaking in the poll there are some at least that disagree with you.

Thank you for your understanding.

Yeah, I didn't ask for for your life story, I was just commenting on your dubious definition of 'fun'

Your original comment was short and somewhat ambiguous regarding the possible motivation for its transmission. I chose, at first, to give you the benefit of the doubt as I'd mentioned my condition to one poster here: i.e., I thought perhaps you were following the thread and posting somewhat "in good faith", so to speak. Thanks for clearing up my misperception.

As far as the "dubious definition" you mention, "fun" is as one finds it and is subjective in nature. I began this poll the day before yesterday and 108 people have taken it. That's hardly a record, I'm sure, but it's probably not insignificant either. There is some interest in this topic and it takes a total of several seconds to comprehend and fill out the poll. If that's too much for you to empathetically understand, you should note as well that this is a question that reflects concerns that have been echoed recently in several music tech journals directly in articles and indirectly (as "in mentioned during interviews"). Several here have noted the issue in their posts as well.

If one can't allow for differences of consideration regarding issues this tiny (in the scope of things) without making a disparaging comment, I fear that, despite my socially debilitating medical issue, "I" am not the only one who "should get out more."

[dlandis]

Yes, next poll should be: “if you only had to use all DAWs and every single plugin in existence, which would they be?“

regarding this poll: that's easy for me, as the answer is Reaper

No need for a second one.
I actually demoed Bitwig yesterday for the first time and it's not for me.
Grant you, i'm an old fart and slow learner, but still.
Reaper plus third party plugins, including those that work around it's shortcomings, are everything i'd ever need (and then some)

Okay, you do that poll. Good luck!

And you're right, of course; many do not have a "need" for a second DAW. I still think it's a great thing in that we have _any_ DAWs. Musicians are buried now under a wealth of wonderful tools that didn't even exist in any regard 50-60 years ago and cost a fraction of the hardware they replace. Recording for fun or profit was way out of financial reach for most musicians not that long ago and now for a relative pittance, anyone can have a studio capable of challenging the sound quality (if not the musical quality as that's still thoroughly up to the human behind the machine) of professional studios.

So, if you're happy with just running Reaper, that's wonderful and, very seriously, more power to you. I'm sure that at one level many of us envy you. I think I could be exist with one DAW, but Bitwig opens up ideas to try that I might not consider (as I certainly do understand that it isn't for everyone). Some of this might be because of my preferred genres: mostly, I'm a jazz musician who has had a ton of "classical" (read: "art music") theory and composition classes at the undergrad and graduate level and I've always enjoyed them. Integrating them has been a challenge, but rewarding. Interestingly, Bitwig opens possibilities in that conceptual direction for me.

Cheers!

^^^ IMO after Bitwig worth checking the sound-shaping possibilities of UVI Falcon

don't know your needs but not sure that you need a secondary DAW

Thanks for the suggestion! I do, however, own Bitwig currently. Back when I was looking at synths like Falcon for purchase, it seemed to be squared off against Avenger. I did get Avenger. It's pretty powerful, but the worst part of the whole package is easily for me the copy protection scheme (Code Meter). Originally, there were huge issues with it and the Reason dongle which also used Code Meter. Normally, I'm not one to bewail the use of copy protection, but what happened with Avenger and CM was not fun. Avenger itself, however, is pretty cool. And I have to draw the line somewhere as I buy entirely too many plug-ins, but maybe I will revisit Falcon sometime.

[dlandis]

And you're right, of course; many do not have a "need" for a second DAW. I still think it's a great thing in that we have _any_ DAWs.

i didn't want to imply that noone should be needing more than one DAW.
After all, it's all about letting creativity flow.
It just happens that Reaper in my case does everything i need from a DAW
(still waiting for a proper Geist 2 replacement for ARM Macs though, which could also almost be classified as a full DAW focused on drum stuff)

I also have to confess that i use more than just one synth, one sampler, one reverb and one delay, even though technically i could be set with just one of each!

No worries; I did not take your comments as suggesting that nobody correctly had a need for more than one DAW (not that that idea is a big deal, one way or the other.) And a big "AMEN" to your comment about letting creativity flow. It's what it's all about.

Hans Zimmer noted sagely, in a short video about how he composed the music for one of the Christopher Nolan Batman movies, that everyone thinks electronics and computers make everything faster, but, in fact, they make everything slower by virtue of the fact that the choices are exponentially multiplied and every single facet of the process is available for edit at the level of data. It was a wonderful comment and really goes a long way to explain what we go through. I think that, to a point, we need to learn when exactly to let our compositions go. An interesting comment someone made went this way: "For the composer, no piece of music is ever finished so much as it is surrendered." I've often felt that way, and even when I do feel something is "finished," per se, I find myself revisiting the piece and adjusting or reworking it.

On the Geist 2 issue, I haven't seen many updates at all from FXPansion for quite a while. I hope this works out for you. I'm on a PC, but I've recently noticed some stability issues in Cypher 2 and Strobe 2 when using them for MPE. So far, reducing the number of voices in a given patch has worked to eliminate the instability, but it would be nice if FXPansion offered some updates again if there are issues to be addressed. They were really good about these in times past.

[kritikon]

Only 2 DAWs?

That's already one too many IMO. It's like "how many dicks do you use to have a wank". I find one generally enough, more than that and it's not what I'd call having a wank. More like giving someone else/others a wank.

[cryophonik]

Next thread:

If you could only use 19 DAWs, and you could only use 14 of them with third-party plugins, four of them have to have an “a” in the name, one of them has to have a guy named Al on their development team, five of them have to support VST3, six of them have to be discontinued, and one of them has to be an anagram of “senora”, which 19 would you choose?

[dlandis]

Only 2 DAWs?

That's already one too many IMO.

Right. And that's your opinion, as you've said. The poll, for the purposes of the question, assumes that one feels a need to use two DAWs. If that's not "you," that's fine, no argument, but then this poll is not for you. As you can see from the poll itself, there are some that feel that two DAWs is an advantage (for whatever reason). I'm exploring Bitwig more everyday, but I know that I'll not stop using Studio One anytime soon. Why? Bitwig doesn't have any outlet for printing music and Studio One is really nicely integrated with Notion, hence, voilà, a need for another DAW. Bitwig is really intriguing in its use of clips, but Studio One? You do see where this is going, I'm sure.

FWIW, it did seem like several years ago, DAWs were more homogenous in what they did. Recently, there seems to be more of a differentiation. Personally, I like that.

[dlandis]

Next thread:

...six of them have to be discontinued...

I especially like this one

[EnGee]

The arrangement aspect is what I am interested in the most, I think. The clip view seems to be most unfamiliar to me and that's what seems to be driving my interest more than anything else. It really is so complementary to a linear approach.

My rhythm composition is probably odd compared to most in that I really try to play most, if not all, of what gets into the final work manually. My keyboard chops aren't amazing, but work well in a DAW environment and I use a WX5 (tenor and soprano saxes are my main acoustic horns) for most of the monophonic material, except, oddly, basses which I either play from the keyboard or my acoustic bass if appropriate (I have an aversion to frets for some reason, no clue why). Drums can be rough as I'm really not that much of a drummer, but, at least I do have a good handle on what makes a good drum track. I have used Stylus, BFD3, and a couple of other apps to produce drum tracks. I'm really hoping that at some point, Spectrasonic does an update for Stylus that includes a more formalized approach to fills. I'm sure it would be killer.

I don't have any experience with WX5 or any other midi/MPE controller other than midi keyboards and pads. WX5 is not a new, so it uses only midi? Can you use it with MPE?

Cubase has note expression so you can control some aspects of the note (individually in a chord for example) that you can't do with Midi. I haven't felt a need to use it personally, but I know how to use it. It depends on the instrument implementation of VST3, so not all VST3 plugins have it.

I haven't experienced with the MPE inside Bitwig. I might try it with my ATOM as it supports polyphonic aftertouch. It gives a detailed expression that I usually do with modulations of additional track with midi, but I find MPE and note expression an elegant solution now

I had Notion before, but I sold it as S1 v5 comes with score editor (also Cubase Pro has a fantastic one), so no need to use external score editor. I'm still a beginner when it comes to read and write notes and I'm not learning more now! I might do when I practice piano lessons again though

Oh, I remembered! Live has a very nice feature. Groove! You can extract a groove feeling from anywhere and then apply it to your drums. It's fantastic! Cubase I think has something similar. Another DAW (I won't mention it's name) has Grooves also. Sometimes I extract a groove from my own playing, then apply it to the drums track. It helps gel all That's why I like Live! It's a pleasure to work with and to be inspired by

[AnX]

I thought this might be fun

You should get out more...

If I did "get out more", I'd probably be dead by now. I am a heart transplant recipient which means (besides the fact that I wake up every morning knowing that the heart beating in my chest is someone else's) that I have an immuno-compromised system (meds that produce this effect are the only way tranplant recipients keep their received hearts, lungs, livers, etc. safely in their bodies); the doctors have repeatedly warned that while COVID is serious for everyone else, for me and others like me, it is a death sentence, period. I have literally been out only about 20 times since March 15, 2020, usually only to areas where I do not have to worry about meeting anyone else. I am always masked when out in public and always social distance. My wife does the same. Yet, I am blessed in that I am among the living; I should not have survived the heart attack or coma that brought me to this place and the manner in which it became necessary for me to receive the transplant is particularly painful as it includes personal betrayals of trust on the friendship and familial levels.

FWIW.

But if you simply do not enjoy the poll and/or discussion (forgive me if I'm misreading your intent with your remark), do not comment. Obviously, based on the numbers partaking in the poll there are some at least that disagree with you.

Thank you for your understanding.

Yeah, I didn't ask for for your life story, I was just commenting on your dubious definition of 'fun'

Your original comment was short and somewhat ambiguous regarding the possible motivation for its transmission. I chose, at first, to give you the benefit of the doubt as I'd mentioned my condition to one poster here: i.e., I thought perhaps you were following the thread and posting somewhat "in good faith", so to speak. Thanks for clearing up my misperception.

As far as the "dubious definition" you mention, "fun" is as one finds it and is subjective in nature. I began this poll the day before yesterday and 108 people have taken it. That's hardly a record, I'm sure, but it's probably not insignificant either. There is some interest in this topic and it takes a total of several seconds to comprehend and fill out the poll. If that's too much for you to empathetically understand, you should note as well that this is a question that reflects concerns that have been echoed recently in several music tech journals directly in articles and indirectly (as "in mentioned during interviews"). Several here have noted the issue in their posts as well.

If one can't allow for differences of consideration regarding issues this tiny (in the scope of things) without making a disparaging comment, I fear that, despite my socially debilitating medical issue, "I" am not the only one who "should get out more."

Wow, you're really taking this kvr poll thing seriously, I refer you to my original comment.

[dlandis]

I thought this might be fun

You should get out more...

If I did "get out more", I'd probably be dead by now. I am a heart transplant recipient which means (besides the fact that I wake up every morning knowing that the heart beating in my chest is someone else's) that I have an immuno-compromised system (meds that produce this effect are the only way tranplant recipients keep their received hearts, lungs, livers, etc. safely in their bodies); the doctors have repeatedly warned that while COVID is serious for everyone else, for me and others like me, it is a death sentence, period. I have literally been out only about 20 times since March 15, 2020, usually only to areas where I do not have to worry about meeting anyone else. I am always masked when out in public and always social distance. My wife does the same. Yet, I am blessed in that I am among the living; I should not have survived the heart attack or coma that brought me to this place and the manner in which it became necessary for me to receive the transplant is particularly painful as it includes personal betrayals of trust on the friendship and familial levels.

FWIW.

But if you simply do not enjoy the poll and/or discussion (forgive me if I'm misreading your intent with your remark), do not comment. Obviously, based on the numbers partaking in the poll there are some at least that disagree with you.

Thank you for your understanding.

Yeah, I didn't ask for for your life story, I was just commenting on your dubious definition of 'fun'

Your original comment was short and somewhat ambiguous regarding the possible motivation for its transmission. I chose, at first, to give you the benefit of the doubt as I'd mentioned my condition to one poster here: i.e., I thought perhaps you were following the thread and posting somewhat "in good faith", so to speak. Thanks for clearing up my misperception.

As far as the "dubious definition" you mention, "fun" is as one finds it and is subjective in nature. I began this poll the day before yesterday and 108 people have taken it. That's hardly a record, I'm sure, but it's probably not insignificant either. There is some interest in this topic and it takes a total of several seconds to comprehend and fill out the poll. If that's too much for you to empathetically understand, you should note as well that this is a question that reflects concerns that have been echoed recently in several music tech journals directly in articles and indirectly (as "in mentioned during interviews"). Several here have noted the issue in their posts as well.

If one can't allow for differences of consideration regarding issues this tiny (in the scope of things) without making a disparaging comment, I fear that, despite my socially debilitating medical issue, "I" am not the only one who "should get out more."

Wow, you're really taking this kvr poll thing seriously, I refer you to my original comment.

Sure.

Look, let's look at it this way: you didn't ask for my life story, but nobody asked for your comments at all. Please move on.

Thank you.

[dlandis]

The arrangement aspect is what I am interested in the most, I think. The clip view seems to be most unfamiliar to me and that's what seems to be driving my interest more than anything else. It really is so complementary to a linear approach.

My rhythm composition is probably odd compared to most in that I really try to play most, if not all, of what gets into the final work manually. My keyboard chops aren't amazing, but work well in a DAW environment and I use a WX5 (tenor and soprano saxes are my main acoustic horns) for most of the monophonic material, except, oddly, basses which I either play from the keyboard or my acoustic bass if appropriate (I have an aversion to frets for some reason, no clue why). Drums can be rough as I'm really not that much of a drummer, but, at least I do have a good handle on what makes a good drum track. I have used Stylus, BFD3, and a couple of other apps to produce drum tracks. I'm really hoping that at some point, Spectrasonic does an update for Stylus that includes a more formalized approach to fills. I'm sure it would be killer.

I don't have any experience with WX5 or any other midi/MPE controller other than midi keyboards and pads. WX5 is not a new, so it uses only midi? Can you use it with MPE?

Cubase has note expression so you can control some aspects of the note (individually in a chord for example) that you can't do with Midi. I haven't felt a need to use it personally, but I know how to use it. It depends on the instrument implementation of VST3, so not all VST3 plugins have it.

I haven't experienced with the MPE inside Bitwig. I might try it with my ATOM as it supports polyphonic aftertouch. It gives a detailed expression that I usually do with modulations of additional track with midi, but I find MPE and note expression an elegant solution now

I had Notion before, but I sold it as S1 v5 comes with score editor (also Cubase Pro has a fantastic one), so no need to use external score editor. I'm still a beginner when it comes to read and write notes and I'm not learning more now! I might do when I practice piano lessons again though

Oh, I remembered! Live has a very nice feature. Groove! You can extract a groove feeling from anywhere and then apply it to your drums. It's fantastic! Cubase I think has something similar. Another DAW (I won't mention it's name) has Grooves also. Sometimes I extract a groove from my own playing, then apply it to the drums track. It helps gel all That's why I like Live! It's a pleasure to work with and to be inspired by

The Yamaha WX5 is a descendent of the WX7 which in turn was of the lineage begun by Bill Bernardi's Lyricon: an electronic wind instrument. I owned a Lyricon II back in the (pre-MIDI) day, followed by a retrofitted MIDI Wind Driver (essentially a Lyricon II body attached to a controller console), then a WX7, finally two WX5's (hopefully, soon to be three of these as they are discontinued and, as far as this writer is concerned, irreplaceable; this last until the MIDI 2.0 spec becomes feasible in a wind controller.) I've attached pictures of a Lyricon II and WX5. The WX5 is not MPE compatible, per se. In a sense, it's probably better to think of it as "MPE Agnostic" as the entire MPE paradigm has little to no overlap with the WX5. As a monophonic wind controller, it uses CC02 for the bulk of its unique expression with pitch bend primarily at the reed. I also have it attached to both two Yamaha MCS2's (MIDI Control Stations) and a Roland PK5A MIDI foot pedal for key switching. So, it's really very expressive. It's got about a 7.5 octave range. Most acoustic sounds do not sound natural with that range, but a number of synth lead sounds do.

MPE is fun, but, so far, I've not used it in a composition yet. I know that I will and I've got something of a new (quasi)jazz project in the works with a friend who has moved quite far away, hence, we'll be doing a ton of file sharing. He's a guitarist and I am thinking about asking a drummer/computer programmer friend with whom I was in another jazz/jam group and recorded if he would be interested in joining us (logistics still being very much up in the air). I say this because I'm hoping that between this group and my own stranger writing, I may be able to use MPE in a formal sense. My instruments are two Seaboard blocks, a Lightpad Block, and a Touch Block. They're all magnetically attached to form one unit. Some soft synths seems to respond better than others, the best so far for me are Abyss and Equator 2. Both of these work pretty seamlessly.

As I'm still learning Bitwig, I've not used any Groove functions yet (though it would probably be there that I would use them); I know that there are options in that direction, but I've not really checked them out, but soon...

As far as Notion is concerned, you may wish you didn't sell it (and I'm really sorry to say this): Studio One 5 interfaces with it beautifully and it extends the capabilities of the DAW's options pretty far, i.e., not everything in Notion is duplicated in Studio One by a long shot. Can you get back your license? My guess is that you may end up missing it pretty soon. But then again, I don't know how you're using it. Just a thought offered, in the spirit of FWIW.

[Halonmusic]

EnergyXT3 and Reaper/LMMS. Been using LMMS more than Reaper lately but Reaper is a great DAW!