KVR Audio

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:20 pm

I imagine this is the kind of thing that comes up fairly regularly here, but after working with music for about 7-8 years now I've realised that the last four have been spent in a massive rut. It's been a dream of mine to be able to make my own genuine 'classic' (i.e. 1997-2003ish trance tracks (and a couple of other genres too but that's by the by) since my dad introduced me to the genre as a child, but I haven't been able to achieve that at all. I've only really been able to finish one full-length track a year at most, and I'm still at basically the same level of skill/'professionalism' I was when I started using a proper DAW.

I would've thought that given the relative 'simplicity' (for want of a better word) of music production back then compared to now, it would be fairly easy to achieve what I've been aiming for, but it just hasn't come to fruition at all. I know it's certainly possible - the producer Enigma State collaborated with a trance fan group last year to produce two tracks that sound as if they were genuinely released in 1999-2001 - but I just cannot achieve the quality, nor do I know how to.

Even worse is the fact that a friend of mine, who I introduced to music production a little after I started, eclipsed me almost immediately, was soon gathering several hundred views on their tracks, and getting contacted by music promotion channels on youtube - all while I was still struggling to put together decent-sounding drafts.

I've stagnated like this for several years and still have no idea what I need to do to get out of it, theoretically I have all the samples, software and advice I could need, but nothing is working out how I want it to. I really don't want to give up, though it's difficult not to feel frustrated at everything.

Rastkovic · Post by **Rastkovic** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:34 pm

Is writing music, or producing music a problem?

If writing music is a problem, try to remix someones else's music. If producing music is a problem, there are a lot of quality workshops and masterclasses. Use that....

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:35 pm

some people are better at one bit than another, maybe work with someone?
two heads becoming one in the music!

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:55 pm

Making usic is not about having specific tools ... it takes hard work & talent.

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:03 pm

It's supposed to be enjoyable. If you're getting frustrated it sounds like it isn't. Maybe time to take a few weeks or even months off it, and come back with the perspective of a bit of distance. Always works for me, although 7 years was a bit of a long one..

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:03 pm

went to tibet?

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:09 pm

harryupbabble wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:03 pm went to tibet?

Nah, hard drinkin' in Yorkshire. Similar.

gaggle of hermits · Post by **gaggle of hermits** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:10 pm

the big problem with learning to produce music and ape a particular old style is that you're making a rod for your own back by doing the second bit. you wind up never being able to be you because you're always trying to second-guess a decision as "would grizzled trance producer X" do it this way? that way madness lies.

you may need to treat this as a two-step process: get more confident about making tracks and then start trying to get the style down pat. this has the advantage of allowing yourself to fail and make mistakes more often and instead of finishing one track a year, you're maybe finishing five to an OK level with another ten or twenty that didn't quite work out but at least provide a bit of practice.

there is a second part to this: your problem almost certainly isn't in equipment. it may not be in talent or working to an end - it's failure to listen - not paying enough attention to what's happening in the tracks you like and working out which elements make them stick out. that's why trying to replicate even just bits of good tracks can be good practice. and importantly try to work out what's making them tick by dropping bits out or changing elements.

i think i tracked down some of your material and, for the most part, it's ok. it's not better than ok but is in the ballpark. the problem you have isn't in one thing. it's in lots of little moves in composition, arrangement and mixing that make a track pop - i think there's one where the lead synth conflicts with the arp in terms of frequencies. a different choice of sound would make a lot of difference.

like vurt says, working with someone else will probably help as it's easier to let someone else judge whether a particular lead line is working or not.

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:11 pm

Rastkovic wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:34 pm If writing music is a problem, try to remix someones else's music. If producing music is a problem, there are a lot of quality workshops and masterclasses. Use that....

I've tried plenty of remixes and originals, it's definitely the production side - but I've tried various classes and tutorials and most of them are geared towards more modern styles and methods anyway.

vurt wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:35 pm some people are better at one bit than another, maybe work with someone?

Not sure where I'd find someone else who does this kind of stuff, it's hard enough to meet people around me who've even heard of trance

donkey tugger wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:03 pm Maybe time to take a few weeks or even months off it, and come back with the perspective of a bit of distance.

I've done that more times than I can count over the years, things are always just the same every time I come back though.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:13 pm

what about the friend you introduced to itb production?

or, you're online, it doesn't have to be someone local.
ive worked with people all over the world on bits

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:15 pm

Which instrument do you play?

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:16 pm

don't take this the wrong way, but if you find yourself making excuses, instead of trying the suggested options, repeatedly till something works, maybe you don't really want it?

just something to think about, not a judgement.

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:19 pm

vurt wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:13 pm what about the friend you introduced to itb production?

or, you're online, it doesn't have to be someone local.
ive worked with people all over the world on bits

They always worked in more modern genres like trap and prog house rather than trance, and they gave up on production a few years ago anyway (which is a shame because I think they would've had a good chance at 'making it', so to speak). As for other people, as much as I'd be happy to work with someone else, I don't really know anyone who even listens to trance, let alone makes it, so I'm not sure how I'd go about actually finding someone.

harryupbabble · Post by **harryupbabble** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:20 pm

maybe competition might force you to get better and finish it. how about the one synth challenge?

me i love competition. but at speed scrabble. on second thought, in terms of music, maybe competition is bad. jimmy page said he avoided listening to jimi hendrix. pagey didn't want hendrix's music to subconsciously "seep" into his own music.

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:20 pm

vurt wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:16 pm don't take this the wrong way, but if you find yourself making excuses, instead of trying the suggested options, repeatedly till something works, maybe you don't really want it?

just something to think about, not a judgement.

I can understand why it might give off that impression, but I think the fact that I still don't want to give up even now is proof that I definitely want to achieve this. I'm sure I can, I just don't know how to get there all the way.

Frustrated with lack of progress/improvement