Frustrated with lack of progress/improvement

[vurt]

what about the friend you introduced to itb production?

or, you're online, it doesn't have to be someone local.
ive worked with people all over the world on bits

They always worked in more modern genres like trap and prog house rather than trance, and they gave up on production a few years ago anyway (which is a shame because I think they would've had a good chance at 'making it', so to speak). As for other people, as much as I'd be happy to work with someone else, I don't really know anyone who even listens to trance, let alone makes it, so I'm not sure how I'd go about actually finding someone.

start a new thread in the music café, with a piece of music, ask in the title "possible trance collaboration?" or something
then in the post, you can give details of host and plug Ins and where you feel it needs some help and see what happens!!
do this on multiple forums (music related) im sure you will find someone somewhere

[TW1306]

it's failure to listen - not paying enough attention to what's happening in the tracks you like and working out which elements make them stick out. that's why trying to replicate even just bits of good tracks can be good practice. and importantly try to work out what's making them tick by dropping bits out or changing elements.

i think i tracked down some of your material and, for the most part, it's ok. it's not better than ok but is in the ballpark. the problem you have isn't in one thing. it's in lots of little moves in composition, arrangement and mixing that make a track pop - i think there's one where the lead synth conflicts with the arp in terms of frequencies. a different choice of sound would make a lot of difference.

I'd like to think I've listened to enough trance to have a good idea of composition and such, but you're definitely right in that mixing and processing are things I'm not doing right. I've tried to replicate/remix plenty of tracks or parts of them, it's often difficult to get it fairly close.

[UltimateOutsider]

I've only really been able to finish one full-length track a year at most

That's why you're not improving. Ira Glass said it best:

“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

― Ira Glass

[TW1306]

And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions.

I've got well over a thousand project files in Reason at this point, from 8-bar loops to practically full tracks, I can assure you I've been doing a lot, no offense.

[Rastkovic]

If writing music is a problem, try to remix someones else's music. If producing music is a problem, there are a lot of quality workshops and masterclasses. Use that....

I've tried plenty of remixes and originals, it's definitely the production side - but I've tried various classes and tutorials and most of them are geared towards more modern styles and methods anyway.

Hm, okay. You have to think about the hardware limitations back then first and there you go. The tracks in that time wasn't overproduced like today, not 80 channels, less is more. Most of the synths in the studios were just used one time, for one sound. The multitimbral synths changed that a little bit, so late 90's is different to mid 2000's Trance.

The Trance gate was a very often used technique, I would start with this kind of sound....

https://gearspace.com/board/electronic- ... ttern.html

[jancivil]

Frankly, choosing a narrow genre, very specific.has-to-sound-like-this strikes me as a tunnel vision quest, maybe you could open yourself up to music more broadly or music qua music and develop chops per se musically, and obtain a flow of your own/in itself. Those shoes seem too tight to dance in.

[elxsound]

it's failure to listen - not paying enough attention to what's happening in the tracks you like and working out which elements make them stick out. that's why trying to replicate even just bits of good tracks can be good practice. and importantly try to work out what's making them tick by dropping bits out or changing elements.

i think i tracked down some of your material and, for the most part, it's ok. it's not better than ok but is in the ballpark. the problem you have isn't in one thing. it's in lots of little moves in composition, arrangement and mixing that make a track pop - i think there's one where the lead synth conflicts with the arp in terms of frequencies. a different choice of sound would make a lot of difference.

I'd like to think I've listened to enough trance to have a good idea of composition and such, but you're definitely right in that mixing and processing are things I'm not doing right. I've tried to replicate/remix plenty of tracks or parts of them, it's often difficult to get it fairly close.

Listening and enjoying is different than listening and dissecting content. You should take a favorite track of some else’s, break it into different sections. Replicate each part.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

There’s is another side with mixing, but start there and pretend your don’t have 7-8 years behind you. Be the f**king sponge.

[elxsound]

Frankly, choosing a narrow genre, very specific.has-to-sound-like-this strikes me as a tunnel vision quest, maybe you could open yourself up to music more broadly or music qua music and develop chops per se musically, and obtain a flow of your own/in itself. Those shoes seem too tight to dance in.

I actually think tunnel vision can be good here. I don’t think he has a foundation to really expand on.

Otherwise I will always agree that jumping into other genres would be a good thing. Here I think it would just push him farther away from what he wants. But I obviously don’t know for sure.

[jancivil]

well, I'm saying get a foundation
first

[vata44]

Sounds to me you’re seeking external validation. Nothing wrong with that, but why are you actually trying to make said “trance track”?

[Uncle E]

1997-2003 was a good era for progressive trance. DJ's and producers were making good money and were hiring mix and mastering engineers. Pretty much everyone had a Virus, some good analogs, and a great sounding hardware sampler. I don't think anyone was working strictly ITB because it wasn't feasible back then. We had GREAT instruments and it was EASY to get good sounds. We didn't get bogged in minutia because most of us didn't have modern editing capabilities (a lot of people used Atari's or hardware sequencers because PC's and Macs had terrible MIDI timing back then).

Yes, your friend was able to surpass you but at least you can have this context when comparing yourself to musicians back then.

[thecontrolcentre]

That was a great time for live music. I got to play all over Europe with an Atari, Sampler & analog synths setup. These days I'd likely just take a laptop.

[Uncle E]

We used to perform with around 10 analogs and a 909. Good times.

[Rastkovic]

On YT there is a channel called Muzikxpress, he did a lot interviews with Trance producer from the 90's and 2000's. There is also a lot of gear and production talk in the interviews....

[freshalex]

I would say two things about it:

- Jony Ive said a short time ago that you have to have respect for your own creativity. As a general thought.

- Trance tracks are sometimes musically very demanding (this is not true for all of them, of course), but some of them are not easy to compose and produce.

Best wishes!