Frustrated with lack of progress/improvement

[xbow]

I've got well over a thousand project files in Reason at this point, from 8-bar loops to practically full tracks, I can assure you I've been doing a lot, no offense.

I'll echo what vurt wrote. If you have tons of material, share it and give references as to what you're trying to achieve. Even if you don't find an expert for exactly your niche of trance, people with an ear for sound design and mixing might be able to give some helpful pointers.

So either find a community where you feel comfortable sharing, or if you can pay for it, find somebody who offers tutoring sessions.

Without sharing your actual work, and asking for specific advice, you will only get speculation about your talent/commitment/foundation/whatever, which doesn't seem to be helpful.

[TW1306]

Sounds to me you’re seeking external validation. Nothing wrong with that, but why are you actually trying to make said “trance track”?

Because I really enjoy the genre and was disappointed that nobody makes it anymore. It's mostly for my own sake, and for anyone else who happens to enjoy the music, I don't care about making money off producing at all.

[TW1306]

If you have tons of material, share it and give references as to what you're trying to achieve. Even if you don't find an expert for exactly your niche of trance, people with an ear for sound design and mixing might be able to give some helpful pointers.

Without sharing your actual work, and asking for specific advice, you will only get speculation about your talent/commitment/foundation/whatever, which doesn't seem to be helpful.

I've done that both here and elsewhere, but I'll share some things in this thread then, here's the two most recent tracks I've finished along with a few decent-sounding drafts I've made since:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlOH_undHcM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yrVqSfVsUU
https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound/drafts-collection/s-XA7CSSCO76i?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

and it's difficult to narrow down a whole genre into just a couple examples, but here's a few that kind of exemplify what I want to be making:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t7flKkynYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51BWC6N-n2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKLGS2Om78U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIzPuE9hYOc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9hjPb22RsA

Listening and enjoying is different than listening and dissecting content. You should take a favorite track of some else’s, break it into different sections. Replicate each part.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

I really don't mean to sound stubborn or rude, but I've been doing that for a while, it's difficult enough to replicate all but one or two elements of a track. Most likely I'm missing some key knowledge or skill(s) that would help.

[gaggle of hermits]

out of the drafts, the two that begin at 1:45 followed by 2:15 show the most promise imo, the first one of those two the most - but that might be my bias towards breakbeat trance showing. i'd work on those and just move the others into the deepest, darkest corner of the hard drive (or just delete them - if you ever needed to recreate them it wouldn't take long, which is what i'm coming to).

the first two might exemplify a problem you're having. they have the raw ingredients of that kind of trance but lack the spark that might even begin to make them worth pursuing: bog standard arp followed by bog standard bouncy-house bassline. the trouble with a lot of this stuff is the difference between mediocre and good is how the elements interlock, the filter envelope works with the rhythm or where the note velocities or timing happen to being just right. without that, it's just bounce-hit-bounce-hit-christ-isn't-it-over-yet. this is what i mean about the importance of listening and comparing - why is this one working and the other isn't? and it's not a mix-polishing thing, although trance does use a lot of distracting ear-candy that can often paper over a not-so-great bass, arp, whatever.

in general, you want stuff to feel like it's flowing and breathing a bit over several bars or more. but in the DAW it's so easy to wind up with the only element of that being the single- or two-bar rhythm or the eight-bar loop, with no other interest whatsoever. and then it just feels like it's plodding along. with the believe in minds track i was literally just counting bars until the next four, eight, sixteen-bar transition...and getting bored.

mix-wise, there's not much that's going seriously wrong. maybe a bit more space with verbs and delay but again, small moves can make big differences.

[Uncle E]

In your YouTube links, change the https to http:

[vurt]

That was a great time for live music. I got to play all over Europe with an Atari, Sampler & analog synths setup. These days I'd likely just take a laptop.

never got that far, but just throwing an electribe drum machine and a bass drone box in a rucksack, turning up at squat parties and raves in caves!!

easy to pack up and run when someone hears a siren

[TW1306]

In your YouTube links, change the https to http:

I didn't want to suddenly double the length of the page by embedding a dozen youtube links

[BertKoor]

I've tried to replicate/remix plenty of tracks or parts of them, it's often difficult to get it fairly close.

Then you definitely need to do it more. Spot the difference, fix that.

Arthur C. Clarke said: Any advanced enough technology is indistinguishable from magic.

If you listen to music, are you just in awe or do you basically know how it is done?

If from a song of yours one instrument track you worked on for a long time gets deleted, how big is the panic to recreate it again?

[TW1306]

Then you definitely need to do it more. Spot the difference, fix that.

If you listen to music, are you just in awe or do you basically know how it is done?

It'd definitely be more the first one. For the most part I don't know a lot about how to create specific sounds, I can use a synthesiser and such but figuring out how to replicate a certain synth is something I don't really know how to go about doing, which is one of the things I was hoping to improve on.

[Uncle E]

never got that far, but just throwing an electribe drum machine and a bass drone box in a rucksack, turning up at squat parties and raves in caves!!

Original Electribes are underrated. Total idea machines. Is there any DAW or plugin that replicates its step motion sequencer?

[thecontrolcentre]

That was a great time for live music. I got to play all over Europe with an Atari, Sampler & analog synths setup. These days I'd likely just take a laptop.

never got that far, but just throwing an electribe drum machine and a bass drone box in a rucksack, turning up at squat parties and raves in caves!!

easy to pack up and run when someone hears a siren

I was actually playing when the cops bust one of our parties, so no packing up and running. About 60-70 cops using night vision goggles crawled across a field on their hands and knees, closely followed by half a dozen vans blocking the only track out & then the dog handlers arrived. All for 50 hippies partying in a barn. They arrested 30 people and charged only one of them.

[lobanov]

Why do you think your tracks are bad? No, they aren't. They are finished and well (I mean "professionally") sounding. You are fooling yourself.

May be there are differences. I'd suggest you to 1) try to be more creative and unpredictable, introduce more new elements and changes and 2) use a bit more layers or elements which play simultaneously. Try to count a number of simultaneous elements in your production and a corresponding number of them in your "reference tracks". This test is simple but it could say many things. This creates complexity and density your tracks lack.

How about sound? In your music all seems good. Peculiar, specific sound is mostly our illusion, it's almost always an accidental product. Almost nobody makes planning of it. Don't overestimate it.

And the last point. An artist is rarely content with their creations. He/she knows them very well, there is nothing interesting or new for him/her in it. It's better to always remember about it. Yes, you want more. But could this wish be fulfilled? I don't think so. Sometimes it's impossible to make something better than it has been done.

[vurt]

That was a great time for live music. I got to play all over Europe with an Atari, Sampler & analog synths setup. These days I'd likely just take a laptop.

never got that far, but just throwing an electribe drum machine and a bass drone box in a rucksack, turning up at squat parties and raves in caves!!

easy to pack up and run when someone hears a siren

I was actually playing when the cops bust one of our parties, so no packing up and running. About 60-70 cops using night vision goggles crawled across a field on their hands and knees, closely followed by half a dozen vans blocking the only track out & then the dog handlers arrived. All for 50 hippies partying in a barn. They arrested 30 people and charged only one of them.

damn
never got arrested, got busted and moved on many a time.
was worried about losing what little gear i had, as some friends lost their sound system in frodsham, police turned up and shut the party down, wouldnt let them pack up, kicked everyone off the land.
then cleared everything.
apparently was sold at auction where they get rid of a lot of stuff bailiffs nick

i do remember one in manc, at a friends house, about 60 of us.
off our nuts of course, police showed up, and wouldnt arrest us in their words "wed only have to deal with you all, all night"
sent everyone packing, i was made up, i lived right across the street and had just necked a bag of shrooms as they burst in

[vurt]

never got that far, but just throwing an electribe drum machine and a bass drone box in a rucksack, turning up at squat parties and raves in caves!!

Original Electribes are underrated. Total idea machines. Is there any DAW or plugin that replicates its step motion sequencer?

it was certainly a fun machine(might still be, its over there in a cupboard -> well, a replacement as i swapped my first one for an amp.)

[xbow]

I've done that both here and elsewhere, but I'll share some things in this thread then, here's the two most recent tracks I've finished along with a few decent-sounding drafts I've made since:

...

Thanks for sharing. Full disclosure, I am neither a trance expert nor experienced music producer, but since I asked for examples I wanted to offer you some of my impressions.

I'll focus on Flash Point, which sounds well arranged and well mixed on first impression. It is very detailed and shows that you have invested a lot of time into this genre already, far from beginner stuff where it would be easy to point out obvious mistakes.

In comparison to your references, I noticed a few differences. Mainly, they do not seem as dense, which may be due to a sparser arrangement and less high frequency noise. They have more room to breathe, more information in the (lower) mids, and a wider, more transparent stereo image.

Flash Point really shines for me in the quieter middle part (around 3:30-4:30) which is very atmospheric, melodic and has lots of room to breathe. In contrast, other parts of the track get very dense, particularly in the high end, and all that high frequency noise seems to drown out the rest of the mix.

So maybe cut back on the high end noise (and/or overall volume?) of your lead synths and find ways to create more air, warmth, stereo width/movement and musical elements in the lower mids. Some devices that the reference tracks use to achieve this are wide, lush pads, but also reverb and ping pong delay on synths / bass. Your use of such effects seems very held back in comparison.

Obviously, I am just describing some elements that struck me the most, I'd have to give it a few more listens to give notes on other areas. Hopefully my perceptions are somewhat helpful