Is Studio 1 the only realistic alternative to Cubase ?

[Fraggle]

Studio 1 may be a replacement for cubase - but never for Ableton.

I used Studio 1 for 2 years (almost every day) - it crashed regularly - I researched the crashes and they were not the fault of plug-ins -

People will reply to this that Studio 1 has been 'rock solid stable' for them for years - good for you -

But for me it was laughably unstable - I must have been crazy to persevere with that bollocks for as long as I did.

Returning to Ableton at version 11 (having skipped the end of 9 and all of 10 during my time with Studio 1) was very positive. The only stuff that ever crashes Ableton are M4L devices , so I minimize my usage of them, and I have a DAW that is 'rock solid stable'

[LeVzi]

S1 stability was a while ago, I couldnt even get it to run in demo mode.

But I would get the demo again before I decided on it tbh.

As regards features, notation is not something I want or need. I need more the likes of Variaudio / Audio warping, good midi editing, mediabay or similar, having things like GA-SE is nice (Slice to map).

I would like better automation than Cubase, I hate the current way it works. FL's Automation is way better, I don't know how it works in S1 yet.

Other than those "needs" I just want something that's linear and works well, I reinstalled Ableton last night and will use it sporadically, but it's old V8 and doesn't handle VST3. But I can use it for VST2 Sound Design.

[dellboy]

Maybe Reaper will be the only viable alternative to Cubase that will still retain VST2 after the shake down in two years time.

[Trancit]

Cubase is a monster DAW featurewise for sure and I doubt many other can compete with that...
Taking their realtime manipulation possibilities in the inspector alone it´s hard (or perhaps impossible) to find in other DAWs...
Nevertheless it depends the personal needs if most of this stuff just sits there unused...

I would agree that from the general structure Studio One would be the closest...
Even if many now attacking it being very buggy I can not agree...
I cannot remember a single time S1 has crashed here (Windows) but I remember having seen many complaints for Mac...
Studio One´s development lately wasn´t my cup of tea neither... but not that bad...

In many places features are just put in half baken...they do not want to think to the end... and using some stuff is more of a blindflight than actual precision...

I agree that S1`s browser cannot compete at all with Steinberg´s Mediabay...
That fact alone that they aren´t able to put in a little waveform or midi display instead of the slider for previewing in the browser that one can orientate better in longer audio files with many parts of silence (like a longer Vocal take found in many sample packs) tells a lot

S1´s looks can benefit from a solid overhaul too...
I agree with many that the UI looks very flat... clips are ugly in general even if the waveforms got better lately...
Their clips on folder tracks are ugly as hell and the idea that the images of the included tracks just sum to single lines and finally disappear completely even at normal track heights is actually quite ridiculous if it were not so sad...
Cubase looks much better in this regard and you really have to squeeze the trackheight to make a folder clip looking like it would be empty...

Their Shift+drag loops and other stuff into their samplers to make slices is a very nice feature but I can not understand how one can forget to implement that the original trigger midi shall often be created if only because S1 timestretch sounds super ugly and smearing on hihats and other percussion elements and they do not have a simple slicing timestretch mode...
No such problems in Cubase...

The lazyness how they implemented their (more or less) new Macros into the piano roll to do some random action tells a lot too... the idea was great but the workflow is completely senseless...
Random actions without any preview or better realtime preview of the result and relying on constant undo and redo is like landing an airplane by trial and error...

I think everybody got his own list...

[machinesworking]

Something that keeps coming up in this thread, stability. IMO pretty much the main thing that all DAWs suffer from is configuration and plug in issues. No developer beta tests their software and thinks, "well it crashes a couple times while I use it, good enough, ship it!!" There are dozens of areas for DAWs to get hung up on a system, Mac or PC, some arcane driver or plug in you love that never messes with X DAW crashes Y DAW all day long. Some odd driver for some piece of hardware you use that nobody on the beta team used.

Not saying DAWs are off the hook here, it's just that I ended up buying three more when I owned two, and the 5 all behave differently depending on the plug in etc. Even supposedly solid Reaper would pass a VST3 that crashed it hard, Bitwig has hung on a buggy VST as well. Some of Steinberg's desire to get rid of VST2 is about this I bet, VST3 is probably bullet proof in Cubase/Nuendo, and they don't want to wast any more time on VST2.

Anyway, my point is our own stories about which DAW is a buggy mess VS are completely shaded and colored in anecdotal knowledge, not any sort of peer reviewed study etc. because they have to be, besides the ubiquitous Kontakt and a few other plug ins, we don't own all the same gear, from audio cards, to control surfaces to OS to...

[LeVzi]

Stability, for me, only becomes an issue 99% of the time from a rogue plugin.

But with Studio 1 when I tried to demo it, I couldn't get it to work without any VST's ( I hadn't configured the folder for it to scan )

But as I said before, that was a long time ago, so it's been updated many times since then and i'd be happy to demo it again if the need arises.

I am hoping and praying Cubase (Steinberg) listen to their users and allow the use of VST2 still within the DAW.

[andymcbain]

I went from Studio One 4.5 to Cubase 11 recently. Completely unscientific take here, but to me Cubase feels like a sturdy mule compared to Studio One's flashy, unhinged stallion... i.e. Cubase, to me, just feels more solid and reassuring to work with - and I couldn't live without control room now. There are features from Studio One that I miss, but nothing deal breaking - and ultimately for my brand of mixing work and electronic music production work, there was a lot of stuff in Studio One I just didn't end up using. Also Cubase, on my particular setup, has crashed quite a bit less.

Everyone's mileage varies here, and Studio One has various options to test it long term... so just see if you vibe with it. I'm very happy to keep hold of both, as I can see myself using S1 long term for Pipeline XT - which has made experimenting with my hardware FX fun and intuitive.

[ozinga]

I went from Studio One 4.5 to Cubase 11 recently. Completely unscientific take here, but to me Cubase feels like a sturdy mule compared to Studio One's flashy, unhinged stallion... i.e. Cubase, to me, just feels more solid and reassuring to work with - and I couldn't live without control room now. There are features from Studio One that I miss, but nothing deal breaking - and ultimately for my brand of mixing work and electronic music production work, there was a lot of stuff in Studio One I just didn't end up using. Also Cubase, on my particular setup, has crashed quite a bit less.

Everyone's mileage varies here, and Studio One has various options to test it long term... so just see if you vibe with it. I'm very happy to keep hold of both, as I can see myself using S1 long term for Pipeline XT - which has made experimenting with my hardware FX fun and intuitive.

+1
Same experience here.

[EnGee]

I am hoping and praying Cubase (Steinberg) listen to their users and allow the use of VST2 still within the DAW.

Or just update to VST3 and think of replacing your VST2 plugins with those that have VST3. If you are comfortable with Cubase, then stay with Cubase unless you want to be polyDAWs (like me and some others ), then S1 is a really good DAW and the nearest you can find to Cubase.

[chk071]

I am hoping and praying Cubase (Steinberg) listen to their users and allow the use of VST2 still within the DAW.

No offense meant, but, I always wonder who "the users" are, and why single people always want to know exactly what "the users" want.

Actually, it's pretty misleading to judge from forums what "the users" want (there are many reasons for that... it's not the "average Joe" who inhabits forums, and, contributions are often based on anger, and dissatisfaction, and rarely on the opposite).

Anyway, there won't be a way back. I can promise you that. If anything, Steinberg comes out with VST4 at some point. If they feel like it's worth it (new features, or significant improvements).

[n I I e]

No. Its Ableton Live suite 11.

[machinesworking]

Stability, for me, only becomes an issue 99% of the time from a rogue plugin.

But with Studio 1 when I tried to demo it, I couldn't get it to work without any VST's ( I hadn't configured the folder for it to scan )

VSTs are mostly the issue for sure, but there's audio interface drivers, any third party drivers you have installed, which MIDI and audio solution you're using on Windows, any background programs you have running you might not even think about etc. etc. etc.

I've had mouse drivers on Mac OS screw up a DAW, and on Windows years ago it too three installs to get the M-Audio driver to stick, there are other variables.

I am hoping and praying Cubase (Steinberg) listen to their users and allow the use of VST2 still within the DAW.

It's a guarantee that isn't happening, it's no mystery the rest of the developers making plug ins aren't big fans of VST3, but Steinberg haven't backed down something like 15 years later.

[Trancit]

I always wondered why (apart from Avid) nobody ever took the competition and came up with an independent format and blames the whole industry with their blackbox contracts...

It was always clear that such a codec owned by basically the main competitor to all other developers will sooner or later misuse it against everybody else...

[jamcat]

Not this half-informed argument again.

So let's clear up a few things:

VST isn't a codec. TDM predated VST, so Avid (then DigiDesign) didn't take up the competition against Steinberg and VST. Quite the opposite. Unlike TDM/RTAS/AAX, VST was developed to be an open platform that any DAW can support and anyone can develop for without paying any fees to Steinberg. VST is the solution, not the problem.

Very few developers actually have a vendetta against VST3, but the ones who do have an oversized soapbox and a clutch of useful idiots willing to parrot their propaganda. Steinberg has listened to developers' requests and have largely accommodated them over the past few years. VST3 is actively being developed, updated, and expanded, just as VST2 was up until it was phased out.

Mass movement from VST2 to VST3 was primarily held up by Ableton. Lots of developers saw no point in developing VST3 when all DAWs supported VST2 but not all supported VST3. But once Ableton implemented VST3 in Live, there was a crush of developers who finally began releasing VST3 versions over the past 2 years. Almost all active plugins have been successfully ported to VST3 by now. Most of the ones that haven't been are either abandonware or from defunct developers.

[syntonica]

Not this half-informed argument again.

So let's clear up a few things:

VST isn't a codec. TDM predated VST, so Avid (then DigiDesign) didn't take up the competition against Steinberg and VST. Quite the opposite. Unlike TDM/RTAS/AAX, VST was developed to be an open platform that any DAW can support and anyone can develop for without paying any fees to Steinberg. VST is the solution, not the problem.

Very few developers actually have a vendetta against VST3, but the ones who do have an oversized soapbox and a clutch of useful idiots willing to parrot their propaganda. Steinberg has listened to developers' requests and have largely accommodated them over the past few years. VST3 is actively being developed, updated, and expanded, just as VST2 was up until it was phased out.

Mass movement from VST2 to VST3 was primarily held up by Ableton. Lots of developers saw no point in developing VST3 when all DAWs supported VST2 but not all supported VST3. But once Ableton implemented VST3 in Live, there was a crush of developers who finally began releasing VST3 versions over the past 2 years. Almost all active plugins have been successfully ported to VST3 by now. Most of the ones that haven't been are either abandonware or from defunct developers.

Not this half-informed argument again.