Automate filter cutoff Shaperbox 2?

[kimpaerson]

I wonder if its possible to automate cutoff filter inside Shaperbox? Almost all of the things shows up in Logic when I press 'touch' and alter the settings. But when dragging the cutoff filter up and down, so that the waveform filter goes up and down, it doesnt show up in Logic.

[Trancit]

It is possible in general but Cableguys did a huge mistake...

To stay futureproof for new shapers they put in thousands of "Reserved" parameters...
It seems that some DAWs i.e. FL Studio and it seems like Logic cannot handle this huge amount of parameters because the total number is limited...I just know from FL Studio it´s limited to 4096 parameters while if I remember right Shaperbox tries to register far over 9000...

If your DAW doesn´t support this huge number of parameters you can at the very end just work with wrappers like Bidule, Meta Plugin or Mulab which perhaps support it and can make it available to the outside too

[kimpaerson]

Ah, that's too bad. Thanks!

[Lee / Cableguys]

I wonder if its possible to automate cutoff filter inside Shaperbox? Almost all of the things shows up in Logic when I press 'touch' and alter the settings. But when dragging the cutoff filter up and down, so that the waveform filter goes up and down, it doesnt show up in Logic.

The Cutoff value shown in ShaperBox is not a normal parameter, but the average of the points in the LFO curve. Whenever you edit the LFO curve, you are changing this value. Try drawing some points and you'll see the Cutoff value changing.

So for example, if this value was made available for automation, and you had automation armed while editing the LFO curve, you'd inadvertently overwrite your Cutoff automation with semi-random values. Also, some DAWs (eg, Ableton Live) would interpret any change in Cutoff value as the user adjusting the control manually, and automation playback would be disabled – so every time you edited the LFO, the automation would stop working.

In short, allowing automation of Cutoff and Resonance as regular VST/AU parameters could unleash chaos!

A workaround is to use the Envelope's Shift slider (which is an automatable parameter) to offset the LFO. This works even with the Envelope's Amount at 0%

[Trancit]

...
A workaround is to use the Envelope's Shift slider (which is an automatable parameter) to offset the LFO. This works even with the Envelope's Amount at 0%

The problem here is if Logic is similar restricted to available automation parameters per plugin like FL Studio (4096) NONE of the parameters of the Filter Shaper is available because they are coming behind the first 4096 others and "reserved"!!!

[Ploki]

lol, 4096 reserved parameters.
that's the dumbest thing i've read in a while

[Trancit]

I didn´t count exactly how many reserved parameters there are...

But I was wrong... my apologize for that... the Filter Shaper is included in the first 4096 as are the Time, Crush, Pan and Volume Shaper...

But i.e. in FL Studio the parameters of Drive, Width and Noise Shaper aren´t available because of this "Reserved" ones and it´s internal limit...

Reaper is in this regard much smarter and doesn´t even show this reserved ones... perhaps of the way they are registered as "X (Reserved)" ...

I don´t know if there is any convention that a host should actually "know" that these are just "reserved" or if it´s a thing of pure creativity of every developer...

[Jakob / Cableguys]

Some Shapers have one LFO, some have multiple LFOs, and we wanted all Shapers to have the same layout of parameters internally, as it makes things easier for us; so basically the Shaper with the most parameters determined the amount of Reserved parameters of other Shapers. Plus adding more parameters with an update brings trouble, so we added even more Reserved parameters.

I did not expect DAWs to have issues with this in the 21th century, and it's my fault that I haven't checked this closely before release of ShaperBox 2. We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

[SamDi]

We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

Is there any release date planned? What will be the update price then?

[Jakob / Cableguys]

We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

Is there any release date planned? What will be the update price then?

I meant this as "whenever we'll do ShaperBox 3". The way VST and AU spec are defined, we cannot change the order or amount of parameters in ShaperBox 2.x updates.

[Trancit]

Some Shapers have one LFO, some have multiple LFOs, and we wanted all Shapers to have the same layout of parameters internally, as it makes things easier for us; so basically the Shaper with the most parameters determined the amount of Reserved parameters of other Shapers. Plus adding more parameters with an update brings trouble, so we added even more Reserved parameters.

I did not expect DAWs to have issues with this in the 21th century, and it's my fault that I haven't checked this closely before release of ShaperBox 2. We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

At the very end it´s up to Image Line to react now and find a way around as they seem to be the only ones having trouble with this...
They are aware of the problem but when they will change something it´s a different subject...

I don´t know how the others are handling this task but I find Reapers way the most logical...
As all the reserved parameters are named exactly the same, Reaper identifies that and filters them out completely that just the "actual used" parameters are listed...

That was why I asked if there are actually some rules how DAWs should identify if parameters are actually used or not....

[soundarray]

We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

So shaperbox 3 is out and this still doesn't work?

[Jakob / Cableguys]

We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

So shaperbox 3 is out and this still doesn't work?

The quote was about the number of Reserved parameters, which was also discussed in this thread. We've reduced the number of those parameters with ShaperBox 3.

Regarding Cutoff automation: To automate FilterShaper Core’s Cutoff, simply automate the Envelope's Shift slider (which is an automatable parameter) to offset the LFO. This works even with the Envelope's Amount at 0%.

Allowing automation of Cutoff and Resonance (or Drive in DriveShaper, Samplerate in CrushShaper, Pitch in NoiseShaper, etc..) as regular VST/AU/AAX parameters could unleash chaos, because of the way Shaper parameters work with LFO drawing.

[Trancit]

We cannot change it at this point, but we will certainly with ShaperBox 3.

So shaperbox 3 is out and this still doesn't work?

The quote was about the number of Reserved parameters, which was also discussed in this thread. We've reduced the number of those parameters with ShaperBox 3.

...

I can just speak about the available Parameters in FLS and here the problem is gone entirely!

All parameters are showing up... I don´t see any "Reserved" ones in the list anymore...everything is clean and accessable!

[Jakob / Cableguys]

I can just speak about the available Parameters in FLS and here the problem is gone entirely!

All parameters are showing up... I don´t see any "Reserved" ones in the list anymore...everything is clean and accessable!

Oh they're still there (to allow for future parameters), it's just way less of them. Could well be that FLS is also handling it more nicely now.