One Synth Challenge #157: FB-7999 by Full Bucket Music (Taron Wins)

[HitEmTrue]

Okay, here's a quicky for you, IV!
https://soundcloud.com/taronium/littlet ... al_sharing

All from scratch (init), of course.

Fantastic!

I had a DW8000 back in the day...upgraded it with a card (or chip?) that allowed it to be be a 4-voice with two layers.

This plugin is tiny!

[ELEX]

This is a little bit of opinion, that I know goes against the OSC community, but I'll express it anyway.

Now, I know its really neat to create a patch that sounds quite close to a real life instrument. I know it takes skill. I know it takes dedication and passion. But I just think the nature of synthesizers is that no matter how hard you try, its never going to sound exactly like the real thing. And by their very nature they are going to sound a little bit off if your designing to sound like something real, like a band or an orchestra.

Synthesizers are abstract. I don't think they're meant to be used to create the experience of real life. Maybe in theory and as a final ends of some bizarre computer simulated world. I just personally think they sound better when they aren't trying too hard.

I know my personal taste isn't the dominant voice here. And I'm probably just justifying my own inability to create real sounding instruments. I just know my ear tends to prefer things that linger at the margins, rather than try to get close to dead center, yet not quite.

I am impressed by the craftmanship. I'm just not sure the sound is of my personal taste. That's all.

And this isn't just about Taron's awesome drums. I've been thinking about this for a while and is one of the reasons why I might not give someone a 4 or a 5, even though their skill level justifies it.

There's an aspect to this that you are are overlooking. One might simply search for pleasant patches that fit together nicely, and end up with sounds that, while perhaps somewhat reminiscent of real instruments, are in fact no deliberate attempts at emulations at all. Just accidental convergence. Please be careful with assumptions.

[The Sound Of Merlin]

My idea is that synths are just there for us to use freely as we wish it. Intitially synths haven't been developed to imitate accoustical instruments. On the contrary; they've been developed to expand our pallets with new and unheard of sounds. There are users and developers who started to imitate accoustical instruments and that's OK. Why not? I know a wonderful singer who gives me goosebumps when she sings for me and she always says that she is imitating a violin when she sings. I don't hear nor recognize a violin at all but I do love how she sounds while trying to imitate a violin. And that's OK.

[Taron]

This is a little bit of opinion, that I know goes against the OSC community, but I'll express it anyway.

Now, I know its really neat to create a patch that sounds quite close to a real life instrument. I know it takes skill. I know it takes dedication and passion. But I just think the nature of synthesizers is that no matter how hard you try, its never going to sound exactly like the real thing. And by their very nature they are going to sound a little bit off if your designing to sound like something real, like a band or an orchestra.

Synthesizers are abstract. I don't think they're meant to be used to create the experience of real life. Maybe in theory and as a final ends of some bizarre computer simulated world. I just personally think they sound better when they aren't trying too hard.

I know my personal taste isn't the dominant voice here. And I'm probably just justifying my own inability to create real sounding instruments. I just know my ear tends to prefer things that linger at the margins, rather than try to get close to dead center, yet not quite.

I am impressed by the craftmanship. I'm just not sure the sound is of my personal taste. That's all.

And this isn't just about Taron's awesome drums. I've been thinking about this for a while and is one of the reasons why I might not give someone a 4 or a 5, even though their skill level justifies it.

You're doing the perfect thing, Aro! The most and best we can hope for here is that we get to learn about the ideals of others. This is how we grow as a whole and what expands our landscape of exploration. Therefore: Bravo!

No worries, I'm fairly sure you're far from alone with that opinion or taste. Thing is, synths create audible vibrations by using oscillators and filters, providing the means to produce music. And they do so for barely a century, while virtually all other instruments have at least 3 centuries of imprinting their timbre into our collective consciousness. Not only that, we can imagine mostly the nature of their sounds and even many of the classical instrument tried to be something else, like the human voice or perfect birds or other animals. I'm fairly sure that a violin was not trying to sound like a violin, you know. We always see or hear potential in something and try to arrive at perfect control over it, taming and training it. Thus the synth also faces the same dilemma, being a new source of sound that wants to try sounding familiar. And it has the power to sound like almost anything.

I'm coming from the earliest days of (home-) computer music, hoping to get the most convincing and/or exciting sounds out of a C=64 at the time and later Amiga. I've always hated samples, the sound of samples or anything that tries to capture any real sound, but I've always loved the fully synthetic approach to provide familiar tone or enjoyable impressions. This joy has never stopped and I've never stopped exploring it. However, only in the last few years I've started to appreciate the sort of 70's sound of early analogue synths, like finding the authentic voice of a synth. Yet, whatever floats my boat never does so exclusively as I would never want anything to hinder my creativity or creative desires.

I'd say, allow yourself to enjoy everything for what it is! If you can feel that something should be different, try to figure out how, try to create and share your vision of what is beautiful to your ears. That's all we're hoping to find here in the first place!

Thus, again: Bravo! And never hold back to share your thoughts!

[empphryio]

....And this isn't just about Taron's awesome drums. I've been thinking about this for a while and is one of the reasons why I might not give someone a 4 or a 5, even though their skill level justifies it.

(Edit to add: this was supposed to just be a joke. An example of classical music with meh drums added. Yes, I do know that synthesized classical can sound great. Carlos being the most common example. Sorry for my sense of humor.)

So you don't like adding a drumbeat to your Bach?



There are people who have expressed strong opinions against making drums. (I don't mean you.) But synthesized drums can sound better than drum samples sometimes. And trying to make them improves a person's ability at sound design. So they're not stuck just depending on samples/presets. So.. outside of this comp I just use drumlab, battery 4 which are both samples. And then microtonic which is presets I can tweak along with even premade drum patterns. I would like to get better though and for me I think it's worthwhile to at least attempt to make drums with each VST. I tried last night with this one and the result was so terrible I might give it up this month. But I will try a bit more, simply because working at sound design is how I can get better at sound design. Taron's post has encouraged me to work harder.

Everyone doesn't have to use drums of course. And it's not necessarily that they're trying to exactly recreate the real thing. But real instruments were developed over centuries and they're usually a worthwhile direction to head towards. I think I prefer a few synthesized flutes to the real thing BTW. But I have still never successfully made my own that was actually useable.

[IV!]

This is a little bit of opinion, that I know goes against the OSC community, but I'll express it anyway.

Thank you for your opinion, Aro! And I don't think it goes against the OSC community!) And even though many have already expressed themselves in sufficient detail, I will still share my thoughts too.

Now, I know its really neat to create a patch that sounds quite close to a real life instrument. I know it takes skill. I know it takes dedication and passion.

Just a few hours of tuning the knobs by ear and a certain amount of luck for me!

But I just think the nature of synthesizers is that no matter how hard you try, its never going to sound exactly like the real thing. And by their very nature they are going to sound a little bit off if your designing to sound like something real, like a band or an orchestra.

But the nature of human perception is based on images and forces us to think in analogies. If you have seen birds since childhood, then you will say that a flying plane looks like a bird. If you listened to string quartets, you would think that the sounds of synthesizers based on a saw, with a certain ADSR, are similar to strings. It depends on your basic images. A person who grew up exclusively on synthesizer music (I can't imagine such a person in the real world, but... ) will say that the violin sounds like a synthesized saw!)

Synthesizers are abstract. I don't think they're meant to be used to create the experience of real life. Maybe in theory and as a final ends of some bizarre computer simulated world. I just personally think they sound better when they aren't trying too hard.

You're right, synthesizers are abstract. The basic sounds for them are sin, saw, tri, square, white noise, which are almost not found in the real world. A synthesizer is a constructor. When I had a big box of LEGO parts as a child, I used to take them and build cars, houses, planes, spaceships... but never a formless something that doesn't look like anything. I just couldn't justify it to myself! Look at it from the other side. There is an unimaginable amount of sound, visual, tactile, taste and other images in the head of an adult, and we haven't actually seen most of our world yet! It is no wonder that almost everything we see, hear and feel, our brain compares with previously recorded images and almost always finds coincidences. In addition, the oldest instinct of self-preservation usually interprets something new, for which there was no match in our "bank of images", as something dangerous, causing us a feeling of fear and discomfort. Therefore, haphazard innovation may not lead to anything good. So, going back to synthesizers, you most likely would have to use only basic waveforms without filters and ADSR, otherwise your brain will immediately tell you that these sounds remind him of something!

I know my personal taste isn't the dominant voice here. And I'm probably just justifying my own inability to create real sounding instruments. I just know my ear tends to prefer things that linger at the margins, rather than try to get close to dead center, yet not quite.

A very difficult analogy for me in translation, but I think I understood the main meaning!
In the music you make, only your personal taste is the dominant voice! You can do whatever you want without making excuses to anyone! Although it's so easy to say now, but I realized it only ten years after I turned on the DAW for the first time and recorded something. Ten years of agonizing torment with the question: "Why can't I sound like my idols or these cool musicians?!" until I realized that all my idols also went this way and found their own unique sound as an answer: "I'm not supposed to sound like them!" When you get rid of the inner need to compare your music with others, only then do you begin to create in full force! Just do what your ears like to hear!) Also, this is the best contribution to OSC that you can make! I would even introduce my definition of genius as a person who does only what he likes, but at the same time brings it to such a form that others like it. Otherwise, this is the unrecognized genius that each of us is!

I am impressed by the craftmanship. I'm just not sure the sound is of my personal taste. That's all.

And this isn't just about Taron's awesome drums. I've been thinking about this for a while and is one of the reasons why I might not give someone a 4 or a 5, even though their skill level justifies it.

I think this is one of the great features of OSC - no one requires everyone to vote according to certain criteria. If you've seen discussions of personal OSCers voting systems that arise from time to time in different branches, you've probably noticed how different they all are. For example, I rate 1-5 for sound design/mixing/mastering (technical side) and 1-5 for melody/harmony/music in general (personal taste), and then I give the track an average score out of two. If my personal taste is not in the evaluation, then a robot can easily replace me)
I suppose that for you it may also be a matter of inner liberation from comparisons. Write as you feel, evaluate as you want, be in harmony with yourself!
And by the way, you can come to OSC Discord by invitation in the general branch of OSC on KVR, there is more space and opportunities for any conversations between all of us!
P.S. I hope I wasn't too tiresome and didn't hurt anyone's feelings in an inappropriate way!

[silverpants]

I really appreciate your honest thoughts on this Aro. I think the best thing about OSC is the diverse tastes and approaches. There are not any rules about how we use the given synthesizer, or how we should vote for the efforts of others. Some people get great satisfaction from trying to get a synth to match a real acoustic snare or sax - and their fellow enthusiasts will give them a lot of points if they succeed. But I'm glad this isn't the only metric in this wide ranging challenge. I don't see there is a right or wrong to any taste or approach. Personally I am not so interested in making the synth act like an acoustic instrument, but that's just me (and some others like you). My usual music is more prog rock-opera sort of stuff, where I use loads of sampled instruments to emulate a rock sound. But for this challenge I am exploring more abstract ideas, with less rock instruments (esp drums) and more in a classical direction. I don't want to be judged on my snare emulation abilities - because that is not my strength. I am excited about what innovative sounds or mixes of sounds can be achieved. I'm very much with you about making music on the 'margins'. That rings true for me. I suspect there are various informal groups within OSC who tend to like making and listening to different styles, and I think that's great. There are some really impressive efforts from all camps. That's my two pence

[gorgorgathgorgorgor]

This is a little bit of opinion, that I know goes against the OSC community, but I'll express it anyway.

Now, I know its really neat to create a patch that sounds quite close to a real life instrument. I know it takes skill. I know it takes dedication and passion. But I just think the nature of synthesizers is that no matter how hard you try, its never going to sound exactly like the real thing. And by their very nature they are going to sound a little bit off if your designing to sound like something real, like a band or an orchestra.

Synthesizers are abstract. I don't think they're meant to be used to create the experience of real life. Maybe in theory and as a final ends of some bizarre computer simulated world. I just personally think they sound better when they aren't trying too hard.

I know my personal taste isn't the dominant voice here. And I'm probably just justifying my own inability to create real sounding instruments. I just know my ear tends to prefer things that linger at the margins, rather than try to get close to dead center, yet not quite.

I am impressed by the craftmanship. I'm just not sure the sound is of my personal taste. That's all.

And this isn't just about Taron's awesome drums. I've been thinking about this for a while and is one of the reasons why I might not give someone a 4 or a 5, even though their skill level justifies it.

I very much agree. I tend to just focus on making cool noises. if something ends up sounding like something, then ok, I'll go with that, but it's never the goal. my "drum" sounds are usually just percussive noises, because percussive noises make the booty groove. or something. of course I then have to make it weird by making the percussion random, but that's what sounds good to ME so yeah. (I also rarely score out of the bottom third so...)

[Tj Shredder]

So you don't like adding a drumbeat to your Bach?

Sorry, that isn’t Bach at all, and the drums made it even worse… Not only misses it all compositional ideas of the original, its timing is dead as a cold stone… You should listen to Wendy Carlos versions, done without a DAW btw…
Usually I give extra points for entries without drum sounds. There is good music with drums, no doubt, but its far from being a requirement…

[empphryio]

Sorry, that isn’t Bach at all, and the drums made it even worse… Not only misses it all compositional ideas of the original, its timing is dead as a cold stone… You should listen to Wendy Carlos versions, done without a DAW btw…
Usually I give extra points for entries without drum sounds. There is good music with drums, no doubt, but its far from being a requirement…

I have listened to Carlos' take many times. It was just a joke.
Edit: An example of drums added to classical that is kind of meh.

[IV!]

Usually I give extra points for entries without drum sounds. There is good music with drums, no doubt, but its far from being a requirement…

I made a track without percussion for Triple Cheese) It turned out to be quite low, but I'm still happy with it! It's an interesting experience from time to time, but yes, the OSC community may have gotten used to a slightly different things.

[silverpants]

I very much agree. I tend to just focus on making cool noises. if something ends up sounding like something, then ok, I'll go with that, but it's never the goal. my "drum" sounds are usually just percussive noises, because percussive noises make the booty groove. or something. of course I then have to make it weird by making the percussion random, but that's what sounds good to ME so yeah. (I also rarely score out of the bottom third so...)

I really appreciate that the group has people like you who are willing to be experimental and accept that you'll never be Number One. You stick to your unconventional guns

[Spring Goose]

I had 1.0.0!

me too. what's the difference?


sorry: resizable interface, that is the answer.

[marcez]

Ready to go. This synth is already in my VST folders, after my ski vacation i hope to return full of inspiration.

[bh9090]

my ear tends to prefer things that linger at the margins, rather than try to get close to dead center

I wouldn't say you're alone there. I agree.