If you had to use only two DAWs (third party VSTs allowed) what would they be?

[dlandis]

Ableton Live + Cubase - actually originally used Reason + Cubase SX having Reason channels on SX mixer with VSTs was nice.

or

Ableton Live + Studio One - but I have not used S1 ever, so not really sure, but have heard good things.

Thanks for sharing!

If I'm interpreting the poll correctly, basically, Live and Bitwig are splitting the vote as far as a "creative" or "experimental" (perhaps a better term) DAW equally, and the next few DAWs (Cubase, Reaper, Logic Pro, and Studio One) are splitting most of the vote for the "workhorse" or "production" DAW. None of the terms is to be taken as an "absolute," per se, as much as a description of a perceived proclivity in design.

Interestingly as well, Live and Bitwig are both fairly expensive apps. The "production" DAWs, however, are a mixed bag. Reaper is very low cost ("free," if one does not decide to do the honorable thing and support its creators), Logic Pro is free, right? (I'm not a Mac user). Cubase, in its flagship capacity, is probably the most expensive DAW among the production group, and Studio One is kind of "middling" in its expense (depending somewhat on how one decides to pay for it.)

At this point, it might be kind of interesting as well to find out if most are using Reason as a full-fledged DAW, VST, or even ReWire. I know that I only use it as a VST as I've never been able to deal with its sequencer adequately. I'm sure that is only due to my perspective and nothing else.

[FapFilter]

Logic is around $200 i think, but lifetime free updates like FL Studio or a couple of plugin developers

[EnGee]

Logic Pro costs $200. You can only buy it from Apple store. IMO, it is the best value for money you can buy (if you own a Mac). While I think S1 Artist is the best value for money for budget DAWs. IMO of course

Bitwig is the most expensive in the long run, but Cubase and Live are also not that cheap. S1 has a reasonable price especially when upgrading from old version.

2nd hand market prices are good IMO. S1 almost the cheapest about $150 which is a bargain! There is some risks though in the 2nd hand market but for me about 80% of my purchases were problems free. Recently I bought Live 10 Suite for $200 and Bitwig 4 for almost the same price, while Cubase I bought with 40% discount from Steinberg. S1 Pro I think I bought it for $150 or so. I'm waiting now for Ableton discount so I upgrade to 11 (but not in hurry).

[dlandis]

Logic is around $200 i think, but lifetime free updates like FL Studio or a couple of plugin developers

Thanks for the info. Is there a "Logic Lite" or equivalent that comes free with whatever operating system is current? Or is that just Garage Band?

[FapFilter]

I'm new to the world of Apple (other than my two iPads i owned before), but yes, i think Garageband is the “Logic Lite“. This one should be free though. At least it came preinstalled on my Macbook

[EnGee]

Yes Garageband is free, comes preinstalled with iPad and any Mac. There is no Logic lite! There used to be Logic express in the past, but now it is just one edition.

[dlandis]

Logic Pro costs $200. You can only buy it from Apple store. IMO, it is the best value for money you can buy (if you own a Mac). While I think S1 Artist is the best value for money for budget DAWs. IMO of course

Bitwig is the most expensive in the long run, but Cubase and Live are also not that cheap. S1 has a reasonable price especially when upgrading from old version.

2nd hand market prices are good IMO. S1 almost the cheapest about $150 which is a bargain! There is some risks though in the 2nd hand market but for me about 80% of my purchases were problems free. Recently I bought Live 10 Suite for $200 and Bitwig 4 for almost the same price, while Cubase I bought with 40% discount from Steinberg. S1 Pro I think I bought it for $150 or so. I'm waiting now for Ableton discount so I upgrade to 11 (but not in hurry).

Pricing on the DAWs is tricky to compare, isn't it? Many have sales on either the initial purchase, cross-grade pricing for specific DAWs, sales on the continuing license (Bitwig often does this; I'm sure it's not rare for other vendors), or all of these. I was thinking more of "flagships" of the products I mentioned, but yes, if one looks at other versions, some of which are almost indistinguishable from the flagships and/or are totally adequate for one's needs (individually considered), it really gets hard to determine where the best bargain is. For example, I recently got a free year's license for Bitwig when I purchased an Antelope Zen Tour SC (I'd previously owned Bitwig, so I asked for and received an extension on my current license.) As the Zen Tour also came with an Edge Solo modelling microphone and free FX, this was a very sweet deal.

[dlandis]

Bitwig is the most expensive in the long run, but Cubase and Live are also not that cheap. S1 has a reasonable price especially when upgrading from old version.

Something to consider here: the initial outlay (except for the amazing deal I described above, in American dollars) is $399: a pretty hefty price if paid in full. Yearly license renewal is $169, but often drops to $129 (not bad, but not cheap either), but the license fee carries the price of upgrades for the year. So far, I think almost every year has seen at least one upgrade (I could be wrong on this, and, of course, I don't know when they went to an annual license model).

Again, this is just to consider; another wrinkle as the plot thickens, as it were.

[EnGee]

Yes of course it is tricky and subjective as well! I think most of the DAWs in the end have a similar pricing (give or take!) if you consider what they give you overall and what OSes they support. Of course some DAWs are NFR like Logic and FL Studio but they have free updates! So, it is difficult to say really which one is a bargain!

I believe in the end, that the one you use mostly is the best value for money because you don't just buy it and put it in the corner!

Yes, Bitwig if upgraded with the discount, it is not bad! Actually, it is OK!

[gExpectations]

Yeah definitely interesting to see the results and interpretation by dlandis. I just want to point out the maybe obvious that we have self selection on KVR and still pretty low participant number, so probably all we can learn is what what users who look into this forum and are interested in this kind of question would choose.

I personally selected bitwig / studio one as I'm a hipster (isntead of Live / Cubase) but not a nerd (Reaper) . I basically switched from s1 to bitwig but as this is just a hobby I wouldn't try to seriuosly use more than one daw anyway.

[Pilonsky]

For a time all I had was a Korg Esx-1 sampler. That’s how I learned to sample, and that sampling was what I was best at. So the rules where only that machine, and every element I used had to be something I sampled off a song (kick, snare, bass, chords, etc). No sample libraries! I stuck to that machine and it’s limitations for years. Eventually my esx-1 broke down, and I tried to replace it with the newer version but I didn’t like it. Plus all it did was try to push you in the box with its “usb integration”. So I finally surrendered and decided to go all in the box. And lo and behold Logic has this simple quick sampler that allows me to audition my samples with the sequencer running (I tried ultrabeat and esx-1 but the never worked for me.) And it’s been great. Honestly quick sampler is the only instrument I use and need. It’s has everything I need to work with a sample: pitch, envelope, filter, modulation, slice mode, time stretch, and it will pitch a sample across the keyboard if you want it to — it’s amazing! A project will be 20 instances of quick sampler. Some reverb, modulation, Eq and compressor is all I need. I bought some third party plug ins, but I know realize I didn’t need them. The only one I really need is Soundtoys Decapitator for saturation. Other than that logic has everything.

[pdxindy]

For a time all I had was a Korg Esx-1 sampler. That’s how I learned to sample, and that sampling was what I was best at. So the rules where only that machine, and every element I used had to be something I sampled off a song (kick, snare, bass, chords, etc). No sample libraries! I stuck to that machine and it’s limitations for years. Eventually my esx-1 broke down, and I tried to replace it with the newer version but I didn’t like it. Plus all it did was try to push you in the box with its “usb integration”. So I finally surrendered and decided to go all in the box. And lo and behold Logic has this simple quick sampler that allows me to audition my samples with the sequencer running (I tried ultrabeat and esx-1 but the never worked for me.) And it’s been great. Honestly quick sampler is the only instrument I use and need. It’s has everything I need to work with a sample: pitch, envelope, filter, modulation, slice mode, time stretch, and it will pitch a sample across the keyboard if you want it to — it’s amazing! A project will be 20 instances of quick sampler. Some reverb, modulation, Eq and compressor is all I need. I bought some third party plug ins, but I know realize I didn’t need them. The only one I really need is Soundtoys Decapitator for saturation. Other than that logic has everything.

And if you want to experiment with samples, Logic's Alchemy is outstanding. It has granular plus spectral and additive re-synthesis which is very high quality.

[pdxindy]

I personally selected bitwig / studio one as I'm a hipster (isntead of Live / Cubase) but not a nerd (Reaper) . I basically switched from s1 to bitwig but as this is just a hobby I wouldn't try to seriuosly use more than one daw anyway.

I selected Bitwig and Logic. Logic is so deep and amazingly capable. Bitwig I find enjoyable and straightforward to use. It just makes sense to me. And Bitwig 4.2 adds Note Grid which is fantastic.

With Note Grid I now have Expression Curves for any MPE synth.

It is also easy with Note Grid to make a Chord Track or Scales Track and have any other tracks follow it. That can be live as well, so various tracks follow my chord playing in realtime.

Want the Drum Machine sequence set up so that each pad plays its sequenced notes only when you hold the note for that sequence? Sure... or toggle them on and off.

The creative possibilities are endless!

[gExpectations]

The creative possibilities are endless!

Interesting usecases! I always plan to check out the grid but every time I watch a video i think "well I could do that, or just use a plugin i already have" or "well thats not for me". Honestly, while the grid is probably bitwigs biggest feature, i havent used it once yet. Prolly my music is too boring. I dont use the clip sequencer either. What I use very much is having modulators on every device, its so useful, i sometimes even use modulator lfos instead of a synths own because its just so fast and you already know how it works. Why i switched is, adding instruments was alot better than studio one, i like the device pane and midi editing was a lot faster (even tho there are alot shortcomings as i learned, especially overdubbing creates new clips -- who decided that was a good idea -- plus no midi comping!).

[pdxindy]

The creative possibilities are endless!

Interesting usecases! I always plan to check out the grid but every time I watch a video i think "well I could do that, or just use a plugin i already have" or "well thats not for me". Honestly, while the grid is probably bitwigs biggest feature, i havent used it once yet. Prolly my music is too boring. I dont use the clip sequencer either. What I use very much is having modulators on every device, its so useful, i sometimes even use modulator lfos instead of a synths own because its just so fast and you already know how it works. Why i switched is, adding instruments was alot better than studio one, i like the device pane and midi editing was a lot faster (even tho there are alot shortcomings as i learned, especially overdubbing creates new clips -- who decided that was a good idea -- plus no midi comping!).

Midi comping will come...

Yeah, the Grid is a big feature of Bitwig. But the biggest for me is stability. Bitwig never crashes for me... I can go weeks without saving and never even think of it.

The Grid is an excellent synth! I mostly do simple stuff in the Grid. Some peoples constructions make my head hurt!