Voxengo - protection policy?????

[airon]

About reasons for doing the right things...

I bought my Voxengo plugs, because I needed them.

I try lots of stuff, but it's worth very little to me if I don't actualy need it. To me, cracked/pirated stuff is a non-crippled demo, and that's about all I care for it too.

When I bought my Voxengo plugs, the serials were mailed to me within minutes. Applying them to the plugs I quietly thought (and I quote John Cleese in Fawlty Towers/Communication Problems) :

" This is MINE. "

And as we all know, we use the stuff we payed for a whole lot more than anything else.

[dburgan]

There is no such thing as a 'pirate'.

Sorry but this is flatly absurd. Go take a look on Kazaa or LimeWire and tell me there are no pirates. At least half if not more of the *terabytes* of stuff out there is bootlegged software, audio, or video. I suppose that stuff got out there by itself with no human involvement. I suppose nobody's actually downloading it or using it. Whatever.

There is however 'good service' and there is 'bad service'. And its also plain stupid to think the customer is at a developer's mercy and should be deeply thankful they sell a product.

There is definitely lots of bad service out there. There are definitely crummy vendors out there. These vendors deserve to have no customers and to go out of business. However, software piracy has nothing to do with that equation. If you don't like a vendor, fine, don't buy their software. But that doesn't give you the right to USE their software anyway without paying for it.

I will point out that every single vendor I've dealt with whose products I really liked and whose service is really good has their products cracked and easily available. I know of several developers who have left the industry because they didn't get enough revenue to support their business, despite the fact that their software is ubiquitously (and illegally) used. Kinda blows a hole in the theory that people are only pirating the 'bad guys' software or that it is good for sales in the long run.

Separate the wheat from the chaff. I agree that copy protection doesn't accomplish much of anything except to cause hassles for the legitimate customers, and it should go away. I think registration and serial numbers, perhaps with passive watermarking, is a good way to go. Paying customers aren't inconvenienced and the developer at least has some legal recourse when piracy occurs.

But REGARDLESS of whether copy protection is used, regardless of whether a vendor is Good or Bad, software bootlegging is theft. Every time someone uses a bootlegged copy of my product, for whatever purpose, they are saying that I am not entitled to expect compensation for the hundreds of hours that went into developing the thing they are using. They are saying I'm not entitled to assign a price to my software (however cheap or expensive) nor am I entitled to charge for it. If they are poor starving students, then fine - write me and I'll talk about a discount or a potential donation. But don't steal the software and then say that somehow I'm a big meanie for thinking it sucks. It DOES suck. Why can't people see that?!?

[Polster]

It DOES suck. Why can't people see that?!?

"There are none so blind as those that don't wish to see" - I guess.

And I ain't a preacher - despite what others may think.

You're completely correct in your arguments though.

I don't expect that the majority of KvRers use cracked software on a large scale. But I think they are in the minority relative to the total number of people that use music production software worldwide. I put the ratio of crack to legit at about 10:1. Just take a look at the number of threads available in P2P and the statistics that some crack sites publish about download numbers.

[munchkin]

You're not giving another view point. You are moralising and harranging us to do as you wish. The tone of your posts are extremely judgemental. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to switch off to everything you have to say on this issue regardless of whether I agree with piracy or not. You won't even accept that people can be against piracy but do not think that copy protection works.

I think trying to force your point of view down our throats is a bigger crime than piracy. And you are guilty of that. So until you debate in a more fraternal way then why should we listen to your sermons?

You think so highly of yourself. What makes you think I am remotely interested for you to do anything I wish? Are you the center of the Universe?

My point of view is equivalent to piracy by your standards. Again, just me saying something you don't like to hear is WORSE than theft. Where is your sense of proportion?

If you think I'm judgemental on this, then maybe I connected with some truths here.

Switching off because you don't like what you hear - no comment.....

In final analysis, you want me to behave so that you don't get mad. Sorry, I'm not responsible for the way you react to what you read.

Oh please! You are so transparent. Don't try your cod psychanalysis on me in an attempt to undermine the point I'm making.

I think you need to make your mind up. First you say we must take reponsibility then you claim that you're not interested in dictating to us.

The only truth you've connected with is that you are wasting your time preaching to the converted. We are switching off because you have nothing new to say. It's all been said before. Go do a search newbee!

I don't care how you behave at home but don't bore us with your moralistic tripe. Only you are responsible for that!

[munchkin]

It DOES suck. Why can't people see that?!?

"There are none so blind as those that don't wish to see" - I guess.

And I ain't a preacher - despite what others may think.

You're completely correct in your arguments though.

I don't expect that the majority of KvRers use cracked software on a large scale. But I think they are in the minority relative to the total number of people that use music production software worldwide. I put the ratio of crack to legit at about 10:1. Just take a look at the number of threads available in P2P and the statistics that some crack sites publish about download numbers.

14 posts and you think you can pass judgement on people at KVR. Another troll in the making.

[dburgan]

I don't expect that the majority of KvRers use cracked software on a large scale.

I think the vast majority of KvRers are very careful to pay for all the software they use and obtain licenses for all the sounds that they use. I'm ranting not at anyone here (the people on KvR have been *extremely* good to me), but rather at this seeming general impression in society at large that intellectual property isn't worth protecting or that using pirated software isn't a true theft. I've had this debate with several close friends, in fact, and we're still friends so it's all good.

[Polster]

First you say we must take reponsibility then you claim that you're not interested in dictating to us.

Go do a search newbee!

I don't care how you behave at home but don't bore us with your moralistic tripe.

With all due respect, you talk as though YOU expect everyone (US) to do what YOU say - dictator by anyone's definition.

When I made my point, at least I didn't have the audacity (no pun intended) to claim to speak for anyone other than myself.

And like dburgan, I can, on occassions, completely disagree with my friends without telling them to f**k off.

See you next time around.

[Liero]

I think polster made a good point a few pages back.

We should also try to focus more on being open to new ideas and not just blindly bash at anything that isn't exactly the way we thought it.

[HanafiH]

Just take a look at the number of threads available in P2P and the statistics that some crack sites publish about download numbers.

Code: Select all

Product				Since		Units dowloaded	Retail Value
Antares Microphone modeler	19-Dec-03	4079		811721
Antares Auto Tune		19-Dec-03	1301		388999
Virsyn Tera 2			18-Dec-03	2055		511695
Antares Filter 			16-Dec-03	3694		587346
Orion Platinum			16-Dec-03	5030		850070
NI Tractor 2.52			14-Dec-03	13067		2208323
NI Absynth 2.04			14-Dec-03	1905		379095
Spin Audio Roomverb M2		12-Dec-03	4705		446975
			
		Total Value 					$6,184,224

This was extracted by me from the download stats of a somewhat obscure China-based zero day web site about 1 year ago.

The scale of it all is quite astonishing.

[waiting man]

Autotune and Micmod in first places...explains all.

[pitchdrifter]

Darrell I explained that good service and treating customers well is the way to increase sales, not begging (as you said 'there is no point to beg a pirate to buy a product' or something to that effect).
That was my point, in case you missed it. You really could've saved yourself that whole bigass post of yours, because its a reply to something I didn't say nor imply.

I was furthermore saying you shouldn't be painting that black and white. Never copied a tape from a mate? Never copied anyhting out of a book someone else owns? Never borrowed a friend's computer game when he was done playing it? Ever had piano lesssons where you copied a song out of the teacher's song book? Yes all these are "illegal" as ridiculous as they may sound. Its not all black and white.

Stop the f**king witch hunt.


Markus

[dlr_cml]

Autotune and Micmod in first places...explains all.

Yes, you're right. It's sorted by date...

[waiting man]

Yes, you're right. It's sorted by date...

damn, I didn't noticed that...

[Polster]

I was furthermore saying you shouldn't be painting that black and white. Never copied a tape from a mate? Never copied anyhting out of a book someone else owns? Never borrowed a friend's computer game when he was done playing it? Ever had piano lesssons where you copied a song out of the teacher's song book? Yes all these are "illegal" as ridiculous as they may sound. Its not all black and white.

I think you are first of all mistaking Copyright with Intellectual property. Every example you have given is an example of "possible" breach of Copyright. Secondly, in evey example you didn't then go on to sell, or otherwise make available, the copies to a 3rd party. So, quite probably, what you have described is perfectly legal - contrary to your suggestion.

The technology of audio effects is more related to Intellectual property than it is to copyright. There is both a technical and legal difference. If I copy the user interface design of your plug-in, you can sue me under breach of copyright, even if my plug-in is a reverb and your plug-in is a compressor. However, if I work out a method to extract harmonies from audio, develop it and sell it as a plug-in, then you come along and incorporate the same method as a built in feature in a host software or DSP chip, I can sue you for illegal use of my Intellectual property (provided I can provide proof i.e. by comparing input and output signals, that you are using the same method).

Cracking and re-distributing a plug-in, or other such audio technology, is not breach of copyright or intellectual property, it is straightforward material theft - just as if someone had broken into a warehouse, stolen a load of DVD players and sold them on. This is absolutely not the same as ripping and distributing videos and mp3s - which is called (I think) copyright theft. Even if the cracker doesn't actually sell the goods on, the act of breaking and entering is still illegal.

Whatever you may call it, the examples you gave are hardly relevant to the discussion.

[munchkin]

With all due respect, you talk as though YOU expect everyone (US) to do what YOU say - dictator by anyone's definition.

You came on here originally and told us to take 'responsibility' as if we need your moral correction. You began the lecture. The thread was a reasonable discussion until you polarised it with your moralising.

When I made my point, at least I didn't have the audacity (no pun intended) to claim to speak for anyone other than myself.

What relevance does this have to the point I'm making that your moral lectures have been used before and lead to pointless and damaging threads? I can speak for Father Xmas if it suits me. He's pissed of by the way with your moralising. Still doesn't change the fact that you are being a moralising troll.

And like dburgan, I can, on occassions, completely disagree with my friends without telling them to f**k off.

If you believe in this right then why aren't you welcoming the fact that I disagree with you? As for telling you to 'f**k-off' when did I say that? I'm asking you not to moralise at people because it polarises the discussion and it antagonises people. The behaviour of a troll. I'm referring you to threads where this has happened before so you can see how damaging it is.

See you next time around.

Yes I hope in a less didactic frame of mind perhaps.