If you had to use only two DAWs (third party VSTs allowed) what would they be?

[wibem1]

For me Reaper is the best value for the money, you pay for it. There is nothing missing in comparision to the much more expensive DAWs. With Reaper you can configurate everything just like you want it to, which is impossible in the other DAWs. And the cpu usage is very low. The other DAW, which I prefer, is Mulab, a mostly unknown DAW. It's modular and in the upcoming version 9 it will be something quite unique. It has a clip launcher like Live or Bitwig and the whole DAW can be used as a vst plugin with all it's functions in other DAWs.

[kvotchin]

Reaper and Live.

All bases covered, for my purposes anyway. Two workflows for two needs.

[dlandis]

For me Reaper is the best value for the money, you pay for it. There is nothing missing in comparision to the much more expensive DAWs. With Reaper you can configurate everything just like you want it to, which is impossible in the other DAWs. And the cpu usage is very low. The other DAW, which I prefer, is Mulab, a mostly unknown DAW. It's modular and in the upcoming version 9 it will be something quite unique. It has a clip launcher like Live or Bitwig and the whole DAW can be used as a vst plugin with all it's functions in other DAWs.

Is Mulab the DAW that handles the new MIDI 2.0 spec?

[Michael L]

MuLab & MetaSynth!
I love "hands-on" software.

[gExpectations]

I mostly do simple stuff in the Grid. Some peoples constructions make my head hurt!

Can you explain a bit, what makes it useful for you? If I want to design a sound I start phase plant, if i want to use a sound I start one of the NI instruments. What kind of flexibility do you have with the grid, you rather use there than in a 'big' vst synth? Or is it more a matter of mindset?

[dellboy]

I have demoed Bitwig and fiddled with the grid but could see no use for it as the sound was no better than an average synth. If it sounded as good as Repro or Diva or something I would maybe see the point, but it comes nowhere near those. In fact I found Bitwigs own onboard poly synth better for most things and quite liked that. Personally I see the grid as a fun thing to play with rather than a serious tool.

[pdxindy]

I mostly do simple stuff in the Grid. Some peoples constructions make my head hurt!

Can you explain a bit, what makes it useful for you? If I want to design a sound I start phase plant, if i want to use a sound I start one of the NI instruments. What kind of flexibility do you have with the grid, you rather use there than in a 'big' vst synth? Or is it more a matter of mindset?

Mainly workflow...

The Grid is an integrated part of Bitwig. It has great MPE support. It has the Voice Stacking. I can set the polyphony where I want... 24 or more. It has the unrivaled modulation system, which for Bitwig instruments, is per voice. Grid presets are part of the excellent preset system. It is included with Bitwig and no extra cost.

Select the Bitwig device (Poly Grid in this case) and all the modulators and their targets are displayed in the Inspector and can be edited there. No need to open a VST window to tweak some mod depth. The modulation workflow is fantastic.

Then inside the Grid itself, it is fast and clear to work with. The sound is excellent. It is a bit plain sounding by default cause there is no detune, or other variation, but once you get some template presets made, you don't have to start from empty and it sounds really good.

The recently added Note Grid is excellent!

For me there is no reason to use a 'big' vst synth. The Grid is better in the ways that matter to me.

[gExpectations]

For me there is no reason to use a 'big' vst synth. The Grid is better in the ways that matter to me.

Thanks for sharing, that was very insightful! I think i might give it a shot, although I don't have access to the note grid currently. The reason that makes it sound attractive to me, I like working with a cosistent toolset -- thats why i like the bitwig device pane and working with modulators so much. Maybe creating Instruments in the grid can give me a similar experience and I can cut down even more on the plugins I use. At least its work a look .

[thecontrolcentre]

Live ... no second DAW needed.

[dlandis]

Live ... no second DAW needed.

Forgive me for asking: do you work with printed music at all (I am aware that there are many who do not and prefer it that way)? If you do, do you use an application for this such as Finale (although some actually consider Finale a DAW; I do not), Sibellius, or Notion? Or do you perhaps write out music by hand?

[FapFilter]

Why do you ask?
Notation is and always has been relevant if you want to share your music with other musicisns who are unfamiliar with your compositions and solely play/sing real acoustic instruments with no MIDI connection or whatsoever. And very long pieces at that, since otherwise you could just give them a recording, or sing/whistle chorus/verse/bridges, etc. and they play that back by heart/ear

I‘d go so far to say that especially “today“, unless you are writing long pieces of music for an orchestra, notation is actually a fringe use case for most.
It‘s of course still taught in music schools, but again only truly required for people who write or play too long and evolving pieces of music to remember everything in detail AND don‘t want to use MIDI sequencers or record their stuff into a DAW

[ghettosynth]

NOT Cubase and NOT DubTurbo...oh wait...wrong thread...my bad...I'll show myself out.

[enriquemusic]

My point is that normally you have to memorice a lot of keyboard shotcuts so is imposible to me to work with two DAWs
If I should select one Ableton would be my option.

[EnGee]

IMO, the best shortcuts are in Bitwig. Very easy to memorise! "m" for mixer, "d" for device, "e" for editor and the tools to edit are also nice numbered.
The worst in Ableton! "b" is Pen tool! Ctrl + e for splitting?! Ctrl + u for quantize! However, after getting used to the illogical shortcuts, the workflow becomes very nice.
Cubase and S1 have very similar shortcuts, but S1 has a nicer workflow and design.

Personally, I feel comfortable now with those 4 DAWs after spending enough time with each (the advantage of of jumping from DAW to DAW the last 10 years ). However, my favourite among the 4 is Ableton Live with Bitwig coming second. The main reasons of going away from Cubase and S1 are:
1. I'm not using the score editor anymore.
2. I have at most 16 tracks per project/song, so I can manage it fine in Bitwig/Live.
3. I spend 75% of the time in Session view/Clip launcher. Arrangements and mixing/mastering takes only 25% of my time now (Ozone has solved the mastering problem for me!).

However, I still have Cubase and S1 if I want to go back to old projects or old way of making music/noise! Or if I want to keep jumping between those DAWs! Why not? It is a hobby! I'm having a good time and this is what counts for me

[dlandis]

Why do you ask?
Notation is and always has been relevant if you want to share your music with other musicisns who are unfamiliar with your compositions and solely play/sing real acoustic instruments with no MIDI connection or whatsoever. And very long pieces at that, since otherwise you could just give them a recording, or sing/whistle chorus/verse/bridges, etc. and they play that back by heart/ear

I‘d go so far to say that especially “today“, unless you are writing long pieces of music for an orchestra, notation is actually a fringe use case for most.
It‘s of course still taught in music schools, but again only truly required for people who write or play too long and evolving pieces of music to remember everything in detail AND don‘t want to use MIDI sequencers or record their stuff into a DAW

I'm asking for exactly the same reason that you seem to be implying: thecontrolcentre uses Live and only Live. I'm not sure of the export functions in Live, but I know that there is no notation feature there. And you're most likely right, of course, most musicians probably don't use any notation SW anymore. Live (and Bitwig, for that matter) are more on the experimental/sound design side of the equation (at least in the paradigm of a number of us), so I was wondering if the respondent had an interest at all in notation; in essence, I asked because at the simplest level and without any prejudice at all, I was gleaning information. While not specifically related to this poll, I was inquiring as to what type of electronic musician thecontrolcentre is.

Your comment about notation being "still taught in music schools" is exceptionally pertinent. I taught computer music to middle schoolers before I retired (due to COVID; as a heart transplant recipient, I am extremely "at risk"), but let me say upfront, I refused to teach notation at all to the children I had for only 36 days a year. Thankfully, I explained my rationale and my administrators saw my point very quickly. At one point, I attended a meeting of music teachers and, as it turned out, I was the only computer music teacher. The other teachers in the room knew of my status and immediately asked me en masse, "Can you answer a question for us?" I sensed what the question was going to be as they proceeded to say, "Finale or Sibellius?" At that point in time, they were the two main contenders for the notation throne, as it were. I answered, "Neither." They looked at me with blank stares, and I explained how basically neither were needed for the brunt of the work I did professionally as a composer and I had no use for it with children with which I was in contact for only one quint (the 36 days I mentioned previously). I explained that when I did have need of a notation SW package, I used Finale, but often it was just overkill. The thing that alarmed me most about that conversation was that for these individuals, the best single item that was afforded to them as educators through all of the wonderful computer-based musical innovations that had occurred was the ability to notate music on paper. For them, music still wasn't what was heard, it was what was printed out on a sheet of paper.

As a music educator, I know music education has largely failed its students. One of the salient causes of this shortcoming is the reliance upon notated music to the exclusion of the recognition of the primacy of truly hearing, appreciating, and performing sound. Even in my private instruction as a jazz saxophonist and flutist, I continually had to prod my students to go to concerts and listen to recordings. Transcription of solos became a bit of a watershed experience for many as I explained that, as a jazz musician, one had to improvise; it really wasn't an "option." But at the root of these weaknesses is the fact that many music teachers simply pass on their own learned debilitations in relying almost exclusively on written music while the culture has definitely moved on.