Why don’t u-he synths Sound as good as hardware?

[jamcat]

When I'm talking about VA, which is short for "virtual analogue," I'm talking about mathematically modeled VCOs. Wavetables are digital samples.

[kritikon]

Seriously fella, you're embarrassing yourself.

[BONES]

When I'm talking about VA, which is short for "virtual analogue," I'm talking about mathematically modeled VCOs. Wavetables are digital samples.

Then you are talking about a sub-set of V/A, not V/A in any meaningful way. You're basically saying that if you make something the same way as someone else, then it will be the same, which is hardly a revelation, is it? And you are the only one qualifying anything at all. The discussion isn't just about V/A - I'd hardly call Bazille or Zebra V/A synths and they are definitely covered by the title of the thread.

[jamcat]

So the vast majority of VAs are mathematically modeled VCOs. IK samples oscillators for Syntronik, but I would consider that a sample-based synth, not a VA synth. Wavetable synths are their own thing.

But my point from the start was that for mathematically modeled subtractive synth plugins (which is most of them) there is no substantial difference between them for how they generate sound. Amongst competent developers, there is no discernible difference in "quality" or sounding more "like hardware" than another. The only real difference comes from how old it is. Newer synths cut fewer corners than old synths, because CPUs are faster. But the maths haven't changed. No one has some super-double-secret math that one else has.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Bruh. You're sounding like you stumbled on a Wikipedia page that mentions Plato's forms, and concluded that all dogs are identical.

Have you ever used a synthesizer?

[BONES]

But my point from the start was that for mathematically modeled subtractive synth plugins (which is most of them) there is no substantial difference between them for how they generate sound.

Except that's not what you said and you're wrong anyway. As I said, go and listen to the raw oscillators, you will find at least as much variety as you do in hardware. That's a simple fact and there is no way to argue against it. And that's your f**king problem - you can be presented with irrefutable evidence but you're too damned stubborn, or stupid, to change your opinion. Or maybe you're not interested in reality, maybe you are happy going through life being pig ignorant? The evidence certainly points in that direction.

But the maths haven't changed. No one has some super-double-secret math that one else has.

The maths doesn't need to change because it can be added to. You assume that everyone uses the simplest algorithm to get the obvious result but that is almost never the case. Look at a synth like ArcSyn, which offers half-a-dozen different saw waves, not the same one 6 times. So right there, with one very reasonably priced VSTi, your argument is blown out of the water. How does this not get through your skull?

[crickey13]

You're sounding like you stumbled on a Wikipedia page that mentions Plato's forms, and concluded that all dogs are identical.

[AnX]

No one has some super-double-secret math that one else has.

How would you know, if its super-double-secret

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

First of all. Which sensational peer reviewed article of research has consolidated that Uhe's synths do not sound as good as HW?

Second: How did they instrumentalize the notion of "good" and made it testable? What was their samplesize test? etc.

Third: Is the title supposed to suggest -given the premise is right (which it is not btw.)- that it is only Uhe synths that do not sound "as good as" HW?

Fourth: Even given the nonsense premise was right, here is a revelation: Uhe synths need not sound "as good as hardware" (what friggin ever that means) because they already sound perfect as the Uhe softsynths they are. And that "perfect" is left for Uhe to decide by default.

Or we wouldn't have bought them would we? Impulsive GAS, anyone? I extensively demoed mine; ACE, HIVE and the Repros. HIVE has been used for pads in our music, and Repro 1 has made it to three tracks as bass synth (among others). In one tune, it interacts with some Deepmind 6 samples layered with my HW Altair 231. See if you can tell it from the hardware synths in Norn Song.
1. If you can, note that any difference hardly affects the overall perception of the music even in the most minimal sense, or would you argue otherwise?
2. If you can't, well, premise fails.

So even if you can tell em apart: Who gives a fck, what has this silly question to do with making music? Additionally: As far as I am concerned, Uhe synths are the worst hardwarekillers in my collection. They tend to turn some of my hardware into dust-collectors, but they won't do our music for us just like my HW won't (You gotta work on this U-he).

Regards
Gothi

[RSL369]

Unscientific, but interesting:

[jamcat]

Unscientific, but interesting:

Wow.
OP is right.
Arturia sounds way better so I guess I was wrong .

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

His and/or his friend´s idea of what is a good sound for illustration is way beyond me. It sounds terrible from any source. Had to stop at the beginning. Call a sound designer.

[jamcat]

I dialed in the setting on Arturia Prophet V by eyeballing the u-he settings in the video, and the Arturia sounds quite close to the hardware. Most notably, it sounds softer around the edges where u-he is harsh and icky sounding. So regardless of the sound design, Arturia is quite a lot closer to the hardware.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

First responses in the music cafe at KVR:

"Nice tune with rhythm, harmonies and melodies and all, but I wish your bass could sound as good as hardware"


"Nice tune, but frankly, I can hear you use HIVE for pads, but you should have chosen Arturia´s JP8, it sounds more like hardware".


Or as someone said to me at a Danish forum;

"Your mixes sound digital, you should probably not use Reason".


What´s next, the loudness war?

"I really like your song, but I wish it was loud as a standard tv commercial."


How about skipping the procrastinations and just make some music? Will be balsam for your souls, and others who are tuned in to your creations.

Freya´s peace

[Ploki]

I dialed in the setting on Arturia Prophet V by eyeballing the u-he settings in the video, and the Arturia sounds quite close to the hardware. Most notably, it sounds softer around the edges where u-he is harsh and icky sounding. So regardless of the sound design, Arturia is quite a lot closer to the hardware.

I don't know if you're trolling because this is a shit thread, but your opinion seems sincere (and moreso shit than the thread), but here's something someone on youtube wrote on that video:

The Repro-5 plug-in is based on the rev 3, which has different filter, oscillator and envelope chips. There’s already repro 5 vs. rev 3 videos, and it’s basically indistinguishable. If you had a hardware rev 3 in this video vs the rev 2 I’m sure you would also hear a difference in each patch.

Arturia's Prophet is not great. Neither is their moog.
So no, Arturia isn't closer to hardware and Repro isn't harsh, you're just uninformed.

Also i'm not f**king believing that i'm siding with Bones.
look what you made me do. ffs

Unscientific, but interesting:

unscientific, but way more relevant.