Why don’t u-he synths Sound as good as hardware?

[chk071]

Me. Prior to buying Monark.

[AnX]

In a meta way. I’d like to think that after Diva and Repro people would improve on the state of the art, given such examples. Hence my disappointment to find that recent attempts couldn’t convince me as much as, say, Diva or Monark would, even considering Diva’s obvious abstraction from the original architecture.

What's your opinion on The Legend, Urs?

[AnX]

MiniMonsta sounds better than all of them, and better than any moog I've played

[kobal]

i never understood why the mini is so popular, the moog modular sound a lot better it seems, it seems moog never made something that sound better than their moog modular and some of their newer stuff since some years sounded even bad compared to it i have the impression (like voyager, phatty, sub 37..)

[HAL76]

republican sauce

I think there are a lot of other analogies you could have used, and I really wish you had.

But that´s pretty much it. Authentic - with all implications - vs. virtuality and plagiarism.
Not just Trump vs Biden

[Super Piano Hater 64]

republican sauce

I think there are a lot of other analogies you could have used, and I really wish you had.

But that´s pretty much it. Authentic - with all its implications - vs. virtuality and plagiarism.
Not just Trump vs Biden

Very well. From here on out, I'll refer to the special magical qualities of hardware as "santorum."

Example: "Wow, this mix is dripping in santorum. It oozes right through your ears!"

What's your favorite piece of gear that gets the santorum flowing?

[Urs]

It'll probably help to improve Diva one fine day, after certain other projects get finished.

I hope you're talking about Zebra 3 here!

I hope so too.

[zerocrossing]

I don´t really get why the discussion seems to turn around wellness hotels now, but I´d say that the answer on the question from the headline is simple: The U-he synths don´t sound like hardware because they are software synths and digital by nature.

Call me stupid now, call me daddy, whatever…

You’re stupid, daddy.

Kidding aside, what is your point? There are plenty of digital hardware synths. They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound, though people would love to make you believe it. I guess it’s time for my favorite story. We all know how I love to drone on about it. Had to (not really) go ITB for a time. Started looking into a full laptop setup. I never actually went ITB (the cause went away), but I did ditch my digital hardware synths. I spent a few weeks going over each synth with acceptable replacement plugin. Some were spot on, or even better, like the case of my Wavestation vs. Korg’s Wavestation plugin. (The plugin used the full 16 bit ROM waveforms while the hardware used truncated 11 bit waveforms, if memory serves.) Other synths, like my Virus C and MS2000 had no direct emulations, but plugins like Zebra 2 or Sylenth did a fine job of getting in the neighborhood, and in some ways surpassing the hardware.

Smash cut to 2022, and plugin development has flourished, while digital hardware synths have seen a lot less development. Only recently are we seeing things like the Iridium and Hydrasynth that are turning people’s attention away from software, or more like providing the no-software crowd with modern hardware tools to get up to speed. I’ve personally got no dog in this race, but I’ve yet to hear a digital hardware synth that makes me want to buy it, except for Modor’s NF-1, but I’ve been able to get pretty close using ArcSyn. (Plus, ArcSyn does a lot more.) If you feel like hardware sounds better, knock yourself out. There’s plenty of choice these days and no reason to put anything down.

You did it, you naughty boy Didn´t I tell you to bertter ask your mom? I guess she´s just busy, isn´t she?

She's an 82 year old retired librarian who's had a busy day if she's done a library fund raiser and watched a full episode of Rachael Maddow in the same day.

Short bread - my two cents: I´m a member of the "there is a HW sound" party and what you´re just doing is just like trying to convince a republican to join the democrats. You´re telling me - once again - how good software is for you - and also implicitly that we do not need diversity as some plugins can do everything (< these "all in one" super-hybrid vst toys).

I'm saying nothing of the sort. Maybe I wasn't kidding when I called you stupid, because what I thought I clearly wrote was, "...They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound..." You remind me of the dude who swore his System 8 sounded better than the plugins. They don't. In fact they sound identical. He later mentioned that he was running it though a mixer and hitting the input pretty hard, so he basically admitted that what he liked was the sound of a bit of distortion on his synth.

Democratic principles are well known to all of us and we use them regularly, but we use HW - let´s say republican sauce - to extend our sonic capabilities into regions where softies can´t even breathe anymore.

That's rich. I'd love to see these "regions" that a digital synth goes where software can't. Now analog, I'll give it to you that in terms of feedback and distortion, and even audio-rate modulation, you can get great results more easily, but there are an increasing number of plugins that do a fantastic job. I've got a Prophet 6 right here in front of me that I've compared to RePro many times. Does it do somethings better? Yes. Does it sometimes sound as good? Also, yes. Does it sound sometimes "better?" Yes, in terms of having a more "focused" kind of sound. Sometimes the wooliness of the hardware is harder to fit in a busy mix and the software sits in there just fine, plus does a lot of tricks that the Prophet 6 does not. (and vice-versa)

I haven´t added a new song to my list of great sounding productions for a long time now and I fear that won´t happen again that quickly as people seem to have lost the sense for sound in the last two decades. In my case it was - really - early childhood education. My father (in his generation your car and your hifi sytem made you a man) wanted us to develop the ability to hear the differences.

My dad was too busy working to feed and educate his family, so his Honda Civic didn't even have a stereo. He actually ordered it without and brought a transistor radio with him. I guess he wasn't much of a man compared to your dad.

I know those discussion for decades already - back then it was about mp3 vs CD. I´d also say that there´s surely no difference if you compare them with a boom box or a regular hifi system. MP3 is also great for the normal daily usage. But I´m the wrong go to person for you if you want to convince me that all quality measures don´t exist anymore and synths are "all equal now".

What the f are you even talking about? In my circles no one thought mp3 was as good as CD. Just like no one thought cassettes were as good as vinyl, or vinyl as good as reel to reel masters. It's always about convenience. No one is installing a reel to reel tape deck in their car.

[HAL76]

I don´t really get why the discussion seems to turn around wellness hotels now, but I´d say that the answer on the question from the headline is simple: The U-he synths don´t sound like hardware because they are software synths and digital by nature.

Call me stupid now, call me daddy, whatever…

You’re stupid, daddy.

Kidding aside, what is your point? There are plenty of digital hardware synths. They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound, though people would love to make you believe it. I guess it’s time for my favorite story. We all know how I love to drone on about it. Had to (not really) go ITB for a time. Started looking into a full laptop setup. I never actually went ITB (the cause went away), but I did ditch my digital hardware synths. I spent a few weeks going over each synth with acceptable replacement plugin. Some were spot on, or even better, like the case of my Wavestation vs. Korg’s Wavestation plugin. (The plugin used the full 16 bit ROM waveforms while the hardware used truncated 11 bit waveforms, if memory serves.) Other synths, like my Virus C and MS2000 had no direct emulations, but plugins like Zebra 2 or Sylenth did a fine job of getting in the neighborhood, and in some ways surpassing the hardware.

Smash cut to 2022, and plugin development has flourished, while digital hardware synths have seen a lot less development. Only recently are we seeing things like the Iridium and Hydrasynth that are turning people’s attention away from software, or more like providing the no-software crowd with modern hardware tools to get up to speed. I’ve personally got no dog in this race, but I’ve yet to hear a digital hardware synth that makes me want to buy it, except for Modor’s NF-1, but I’ve been able to get pretty close using ArcSyn. (Plus, ArcSyn does a lot more.) If you feel like hardware sounds better, knock yourself out. There’s plenty of choice these days and no reason to put anything down.

You did it, you naughty boy Didn´t I tell you to bertter ask your mom? I guess she´s just busy, isn´t she?

She's an 82 year old retired librarian who's had a busy day if she's done a library fund raiser and watched a full episode of Rachael Maddow in the same day.

Short bread - my two cents: I´m a member of the "there is a HW sound" party and what you´re just doing is just like trying to convince a republican to join the democrats. You´re telling me - once again - how good software is for you - and also implicitly that we do not need diversity as some plugins can do everything (< these "all in one" super-hybrid vst toys).

I'm saying nothing of the sort. Maybe I wasn't kidding when I called you stupid, because what I thought I clearly wrote was, "...They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound..." You remind me of the dude who swore his System 8 sounded better than the plugins. They don't. In fact they sound identical. He later mentioned that he was running it though a mixer and hitting the input pretty hard, so he basically admitted that what he liked was the sound of a bit of distortion on his synth.

Democratic principles are well known to all of us and we use them regularly, but we use HW - let´s say republican sauce - to extend our sonic capabilities into regions where softies can´t even breathe anymore.

That's rich. I'd love to see these "regions" that a digital synth goes where software can't. Now analog, I'll give it to you that in terms of feedback and distortion, and even audio-rate modulation, you can get great results more easily, but there are an increasing number of plugins that do a fantastic job. I've got a Prophet 6 right here in front of me that I've compared to RePro many times. Does it do somethings better? Yes. Does it sometimes sound as good? Also, yes. Does it sound sometimes "better?" Yes, in terms of having a more "focused" kind of sound. Sometimes the wooliness of the hardware is harder to fit in a busy mix and the software sits in there just fine, plus does a lot of tricks that the Prophet 6 does not. (and vice-versa)

I haven´t added a new song to my list of great sounding productions for a long time now and I fear that won´t happen again that quickly as people seem to have lost the sense for sound in the last two decades. In my case it was - really - early childhood education. My father (in his generation your car and your hifi sytem made you a man) wanted us to develop the ability to hear the differences.

My dad was too busy working to feed and educate his family, so his Honda Civic didn't even have a stereo. He actually ordered it without and brought a transistor radio with him. I guess he wasn't much of a man compared to your dad.

I know those discussion for decades already - back then it was about mp3 vs CD. I´d also say that there´s surely no difference if you compare them with a boom box or a regular hifi system. MP3 is also great for the normal daily usage. But I´m the wrong go to person for you if you want to convince me that all quality measures don´t exist anymore and synths are "all equal now".

What the f are you even talking about? In my circles no one thought mp3 was as good as CD. Just like no one thought cassettes were as good as vinyl, or vinyl as good as reel to reel masters. It's always about convenience. No one is installing a reel to reel tape deck in their car.

That old debate again I´d say "microfreak" (that cheap thing) and the rest is up to the user. And the use case.

Back in 200x I thought about starting scientifically political blogs and ended up throwing my mockups in the garbage since I came to the conclusion that it´d be inappropriate to try to convince other people - also because I couldn´t know if they have really understood what has been said. And iirc it was John Lennon who made me think it all over again

And sorry for mentioning you mum. All the best for you both and have fun with your hardware!

[zerocrossing]

I don´t really get why the discussion seems to turn around wellness hotels now, but I´d say that the answer on the question from the headline is simple: The U-he synths don´t sound like hardware because they are software synths and digital by nature.

Call me stupid now, call me daddy, whatever…

You’re stupid, daddy.

Kidding aside, what is your point? There are plenty of digital hardware synths. They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound, though people would love to make you believe it. I guess it’s time for my favorite story. We all know how I love to drone on about it. Had to (not really) go ITB for a time. Started looking into a full laptop setup. I never actually went ITB (the cause went away), but I did ditch my digital hardware synths. I spent a few weeks going over each synth with acceptable replacement plugin. Some were spot on, or even better, like the case of my Wavestation vs. Korg’s Wavestation plugin. (The plugin used the full 16 bit ROM waveforms while the hardware used truncated 11 bit waveforms, if memory serves.) Other synths, like my Virus C and MS2000 had no direct emulations, but plugins like Zebra 2 or Sylenth did a fine job of getting in the neighborhood, and in some ways surpassing the hardware.

Smash cut to 2022, and plugin development has flourished, while digital hardware synths have seen a lot less development. Only recently are we seeing things like the Iridium and Hydrasynth that are turning people’s attention away from software, or more like providing the no-software crowd with modern hardware tools to get up to speed. I’ve personally got no dog in this race, but I’ve yet to hear a digital hardware synth that makes me want to buy it, except for Modor’s NF-1, but I’ve been able to get pretty close using ArcSyn. (Plus, ArcSyn does a lot more.) If you feel like hardware sounds better, knock yourself out. There’s plenty of choice these days and no reason to put anything down.

You did it, you naughty boy Didn´t I tell you to bertter ask your mom? I guess she´s just busy, isn´t she?

She's an 82 year old retired librarian who's had a busy day if she's done a library fund raiser and watched a full episode of Rachael Maddow in the same day.

Short bread - my two cents: I´m a member of the "there is a HW sound" party and what you´re just doing is just like trying to convince a republican to join the democrats. You´re telling me - once again - how good software is for you - and also implicitly that we do not need diversity as some plugins can do everything (< these "all in one" super-hybrid vst toys).

I'm saying nothing of the sort. Maybe I wasn't kidding when I called you stupid, because what I thought I clearly wrote was, "...They all sound like themselves, but there isn’t some “hardware” sound..." You remind me of the dude who swore his System 8 sounded better than the plugins. They don't. In fact they sound identical. He later mentioned that he was running it though a mixer and hitting the input pretty hard, so he basically admitted that what he liked was the sound of a bit of distortion on his synth.

Democratic principles are well known to all of us and we use them regularly, but we use HW - let´s say republican sauce - to extend our sonic capabilities into regions where softies can´t even breathe anymore.

That's rich. I'd love to see these "regions" that a digital synth goes where software can't. Now analog, I'll give it to you that in terms of feedback and distortion, and even audio-rate modulation, you can get great results more easily, but there are an increasing number of plugins that do a fantastic job. I've got a Prophet 6 right here in front of me that I've compared to RePro many times. Does it do somethings better? Yes. Does it sometimes sound as good? Also, yes. Does it sound sometimes "better?" Yes, in terms of having a more "focused" kind of sound. Sometimes the wooliness of the hardware is harder to fit in a busy mix and the software sits in there just fine, plus does a lot of tricks that the Prophet 6 does not. (and vice-versa)

I haven´t added a new song to my list of great sounding productions for a long time now and I fear that won´t happen again that quickly as people seem to have lost the sense for sound in the last two decades. In my case it was - really - early childhood education. My father (in his generation your car and your hifi sytem made you a man) wanted us to develop the ability to hear the differences.

My dad was too busy working to feed and educate his family, so his Honda Civic didn't even have a stereo. He actually ordered it without and brought a transistor radio with him. I guess he wasn't much of a man compared to your dad.

I know those discussion for decades already - back then it was about mp3 vs CD. I´d also say that there´s surely no difference if you compare them with a boom box or a regular hifi system. MP3 is also great for the normal daily usage. But I´m the wrong go to person for you if you want to convince me that all quality measures don´t exist anymore and synths are "all equal now".

What the f are you even talking about? In my circles no one thought mp3 was as good as CD. Just like no one thought cassettes were as good as vinyl, or vinyl as good as reel to reel masters. It's always about convenience. No one is installing a reel to reel tape deck in their car.

That old debate again I´d say "microfreak" (that cheap thing) and the rest is up to the user. And the use case.

Back in 200x I thought about starting scientifically political blogs and ended up throwing my mockups in the garbage since I came to the conclusion that it´d be inappropriate to try to convince other people - also because I couldn´t know if they have really understood what has been said. And iirc it was John Lennon who made me think it all over again

And sorry for mentioning you mum. All the best for you both and have fun with your hardware!

It’s OK. I’m mature enough to know what a “your mom” taunt is and appreciate it. I was actually banned from a thread in Gearspace for saying it when it was obviously meant in a good natured way. Mom jokes are only offensive to children and the mentally incompetent.

Probably the right move on the political front. It’s really about culture war stuff now. Popular policy is rejected because it was suggested by the “opposition.” It’s really come down to one thing. If you think a woman should carry a baby to term, even if it’s the result of being raped, vote Republican. All others should vote Democratic. Republicans don’t even bother with policies anymore.

[zerocrossing]

republican sauce

I think there are a lot of other analogies you could have used, and I really wish you had.

But that´s pretty much it. Authentic - with all its implications - vs. virtuality and plagiarism.
Not just Trump vs Biden

Very well. From here on out, I'll refer to the special magical qualities of hardware as "santorum."

Example: "Wow, this mix is dripping in santorum. It oozes right through your ears!"

What's your favorite piece of gear that gets the santorum flowing?

What actually is “Republican sauce?” No tax or regulations for corporations, so workers can be kept as poor as possible so billionaires can build private space ships? No birth control! We need bodies flipp’n burgers!

[zerocrossing]

It’s just semantics.

actually, its a technical term.

We all ask for a “Kleenex”

but that's something else entirely, a genericized trademark.

now, if you were to say that you always ask for 'wine' when it could be red wine, or white wine, or rose, and argued that everyone expects it to mean red wine, you'd be closer.

Also, I don’t know about the technical aspects of things, but I’d imagine that some synths that we call wavetable synths aren’t using a sample the way traditional wavetable synths work.

do you mean traditional single-cycle wavetables, or traditional multi-cycle wavetables?

Pedantics: 1 Poets: 0

maybe try being poetic about your art, not your tools.

You should worry about your own art.

[whyterabbyt]

You should worry about your own art.

I sincerely doubt you'd have any useful insight into that.

[HAL76]

republican sauce

I think there are a lot of other analogies you could have used, and I really wish you had.

But that´s pretty much it. Authentic - with all its implications - vs. virtuality and plagiarism.
Not just Trump vs Biden

Very well. From here on out, I'll refer to the special magical qualities of hardware as "santorum."

Example: "Wow, this mix is dripping in santorum. It oozes right through your ears!"

What's your favorite piece of gear that gets the santorum flowing?

What actually is “Republican sauce?” No tax or regulations for corporations, so workers can be kept as poor as possible so billionaires can build private space ships? No birth control! We need bodies flipp’n burgers!

That was a serious comparison. Republicans value historical achievements and stability higher than progress and its risk as many people like me rate hardware higher because of its superiour sound.

[chk071]

In the meantime, "Sebastian the Seeker", creator of this thread, and member of this site for a few weeks prior to creating this thread, posted 3 one (half) sentence meaningless posts, and was never to be seen again.

Forum madness in full effect.