Clap Plugin Format

[] Peter:H []

I don't know ... Clap looks like a one man show code base started years ago, got kind of hibernated back then and now it's reactivated by the same single person. Look at the commits: https://github.com/free-audio/clap/commits/main

And Urs has state that VST has so many bad things, i.e. missing clear semantics about how APIs are supposed to be used by DAWs and plugin vendors...May be he can explain how and where the clear semantics is documented for CLAP? I can't find it.
And I cannot find any release at the github repo!? So how can sbdy build a plugin if there has been no versioned release yet?

The code base is right now a bunch of typedefs and function signatures. The semantics and how to use them is not very well documented. That means that each DAW can implement things differently. Cannot see how this improves the situation about one of the most important pain points he mentioned...

The VST spec might be not the best spec. But I wouldn't invest money in CLAP either.

[airborne]

Promising looking... I am especially interested in its ability to do polyphonic modulation/automation. It means the per voice modulation that currently only works with Bitwig instruments will work with u-he plugins too (CLAP version)

Hmmm... something that VST3 has been doing for 13 years now. Why developers have not caught up is a big mystery to me. The instruments that have fully embraced VST3 have polyphonic pitch bend, pan, filter etc etc.

Do we really need another format to give us that?
Just my two cents...

[MirkoVanHauten]

Do we really need another format to give us that?
Just my two cents...

No. We need an easy, free & open standard solving other real life, not only cosmetic issues as well. CLAP does that.

[pdxindy]

Why developers have not caught up is a big mystery to me.

Exactly...

[billcarroll]

I'm excited to say, I have the CLAP! Surge XT CLAP working in Bitwig 4.2.

I'm excited to see what Bitwig and u-he make of the new plugin format.

Generally, I'm excited. Apparently.

[ThomasHelzle]

With the nightly or did you compile yourself?
On Windows 10, the nightly doesn't show up for me...

But it's great to see that we are getting closer!

Cheers,

Tom

[airborne]

Do we really need another format to give us that?
Just my two cents...

No. We need an easy, free & open standard solving other real life, not only cosmetic issues as well. CLAP does that.

I am not a developer myself so I am sure what you say has merit if you talk from a developer's perspective.
But from a user perspective, I am struggling to see why a format that has been around for so long and offers brilliant possibilities (again, with real-world plugins that fully support it) hasn't been celebrated and adopted already.

And from a user's perspective, I am dreading the thought that we will have another format that could introduce more incompatibilities, more work for developers to support it while taking time and resources from well-established formats like VST3 and AU.

I am all about progress, but a new plugin format has to offer some REALLY big benefits to the user too apart from the developers So I'd like to know what else does CLAP offer apart from polyphonic expression which has been around for over a decade.

[ThomasHelzle]

Read the main Clap thread, will you, it has all been discussed and explained...
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=574861
And it's mostly concerning developers.

[billcarroll]

With the nightly or did you compile yourself?
On Windows 10, the nightly doesn't show up for me...

But it's great to see that we are getting closer!

Cheers,

Tom

The nightly build. Check the video from Jürgen Moßgraber, create the config.json and add the necessary "clap : true"

[ThomasHelzle]

Ah - I had a typo in there.
Works now
Thanks!

Tom

[Dionysos]

I am all about progress, but a new plugin format has to offer some REALLY big benefits to the user too apart from the developers

Disagree. If there are big benefits for the devs that mean they can focus more on the audio side of plugin development rather than fighting a spec (for whatever reason, I'm not that deep into it), then that's good enough for me as a user to want to adopt that new format and see it spread in usage.

[pdxindy]

I am not a developer myself so I am sure what you say has merit if you talk from a developer's perspective.
But from a user perspective, I am struggling to see why a format that has been around for so long and offers brilliant possibilities (again, with real-world plugins that fully support it) hasn't been celebrated and adopted already.

And from a user's perspective, I am dreading the thought that we will have another format that could introduce more incompatibilities, more work for developers to support it while taking time and resources from well-established formats like VST3 and AU.

I am all about progress, but a new plugin format has to offer some REALLY big benefits to the user too apart from the developers So I'd like to know what else does CLAP offer apart from polyphonic expression which has been around for over a decade.

Have you read the CLAP thread in the u-he forum? It is very informative and answers all your questions in depth.

Urs said CLAP will save them time and be less work for them.

VST3 is a problematic standard and is developer unfriendly. The reasons why are also explained in that thread.

[airborne]

I am not a developer myself so I am sure what you say has merit if you talk from a developer's perspective.
But from a user perspective, I am struggling to see why a format that has been around for so long and offers brilliant possibilities (again, with real-world plugins that fully support it) hasn't been celebrated and adopted already.

And from a user's perspective, I am dreading the thought that we will have another format that could introduce more incompatibilities, more work for developers to support it while taking time and resources from well-established formats like VST3 and AU.

I am all about progress, but a new plugin format has to offer some REALLY big benefits to the user too apart from the developers So I'd like to know what else does CLAP offer apart from polyphonic expression which has been around for over a decade.

Have you read the CLAP thread in the u-he forum? It is very informative and answers all your questions in depth.

Urs said CLAP will save them time and be less work for them.

VST3 is a problematic standard and is developer unfriendly. The reasons why are also explained in that thread.

I actually haven't thanks for pointing this out!

Well, you'd expect that Urs would have said that- he is pushing this format, on his interviews, it sounds like his big "project".

I will be impressed when big names start to catch up - just to be clear, I am talking from a professional producer/mixer/mastering engineer perspective (not a developer or modular synth enthusiast/YouTuber). There is no room for tests and experiments in this arena - hell some people are still using PT9 refusing to upgrade to AAX let alone go to a brand new unknown standard.

What's the plan and how is the format going to be pushed? You have to convince all big companies to adopt it (Apple? ( ) Ableton? Steinberg?). Is this feasible?

I personally have been using VST3 for over a decade now, phasing out VST2 plugins gradually and from a user's perspective, I have nothing complain about, I've been enjoying:
1. polyphonic midi control
2. multi sidechain inputs for plugins
3. VST Expressions for libraries

But again- this is all from an end user's perspective.
I am going through U-He's post over here at the moment, an interesting read. I especially like the prospect of faster scanning and more stability.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

You have to convince all big companies to adopt it (Apple? ( ) Ableton? Steinberg?).

No, you don't have to do any such thing. Apple, Avid, and Steinberg are all married to their own plugin formats and can basically be ignored. AU is Mac-only, AAX is Pro Tools-only, and VST2 has been sentenced to death. CLAP's only real competition will be VST3, which is underdocumented, difficult to implement, and horribly inconsistent between hosts. I don't think Ableton has officially announced CLAP support, but apart from Bitwig and u-he, there are at least two other major players involved, and Ableton is likely one of them. We'll find out in due time.

[ghettosynth]

Tangential question, if people think that it's too off topic I'll post my own thread on this, but here goes.

I want to have a host that supports CLAP for testing. I have not interest, at the moment, in switching to Bitwig. I fully expect that Reaper will be among the first DAWs to support CLAP after Bitwig. I have had a bitwig 8-track license since forever, but I need to renew support in order to get version 4, yeah, I don't want to do that if I can avoid it.

So, here are the questions, keeping in mind that Plugin Boutique is giving away an 8-track license this month with purchase:

1) Will Bitwig 8-Track 4.xx (whatever the current version is) give me a host to play with CLAP format plugins?

2) If I get the free license from PB, can I register this with the same account, or do I need to create a different account?

3) Will getting the free license from PB circumvent the need for me to pay for "support."

4) Which of the Uhe plugins are currently, as of right now, supporting CLAP on installation?

Sorry if I sound super cheap, this is just for me to play with this without having to write my own host. Since Bitwig is leading the way with this, that seems like the most reliable way to play around with this format. Any thoughts appreciated.