Fathom Synth Development Thread

[WasteLand]

Is this just in the Vector version?

EDIT: short answer; no; also Fathom Pro (3.7) has it.

i was already telling about my trial and error, with experience.. about the spectral mod..
i have Fathom Vector, so i get the Vector updata, aha, i must also update of course the Fathom Pro, me thinks.. yes..

installed it, it has it... the Fathom Pro non AVX... (and of course the Fathom Pro AVX will have it als)

but i am trying to understand the spectrum modulation, via the manual. sometimes i get, and then i loose it... but it gives quite some results, and even my laptop holds it...

i gonna try again, played with it for a half hour or more, but i must do the simple approach, each change each parameter seperately, and then make it more complex...

it is indeed something to get used to, there are so many different approaches, for per partial modulation, or segments. the per partial i get better... segments, and it has a random factor, in Fathom, i guess. but i believe, as i said before, it will get some great results, can't reproduce them, did already made some presets, but must save when i hear something good, every time..

[WasteLand]

May I kindly ask for some tutorial video explaining the new features to noobs like me.
I'm actually a bit lost about how to use the controls of the new "Spectral Modulation" and what the effect of the individual controls is. I studied the manual and tried to tweak the setting accordingly. I can get some nice sounds though not knowing why And the Settings on the righ side of the waveform panel in the Spectrum Tab don't seem to have any effect on the sound in my ears... I'm definitely doing sth worng. But I don't have a clue what.

i could quote you, in the previous reaction, but my head today, or for some days, an infection.. well..

so i am trying with some fever to understand it, sometimes i get indeed what i am doing, sometimes, indeed the settings on the right, except partial, well my head, if i don't see it front of me...

i think it something to get used to, although a vid... i wanted to make one already, but that was hybris... and not the right system, do it, it can do it, but with, well.. no energy to do it.

o well, indeed great release! perhaps someone else steps in with some more in-depth knowledge.

but it can be mastered, i will not stop!

[FathomSynth]

I'm not sure why your VST3 does not have AVX. I tested it a lot in Ableton 11 and it works fine for me.
You need Fathom Vector to use AVX in VST3.

In settings, if it won't let you click on Intel Parallel and turn it blue then it means for some reason on your system AVX is not available in your host. It works in Ableton 11 in Windows.

Yes, I will try to make a video demonstrating the Spectral Distortion.

When you experiment with Spectral Distortion I would recommend using only one oscillator at first. Only one oscillator at a time in a preset can use it because it is so CPU expensive. So it could be you are turning it on in the second oscillator which disables it in the first one. So just try one oscillator first.

Also just use a single mono detune voice. If you use over three detune voices not all the voices will use it. The number of detune voices using it is controlled with the Voices dial in the lower left.

Also make sure that the oscillator partials dial is at least as high as the Spectrum Partial Max dial or you won't actually be using all the partials that contain the spectral modulation so then of course you would not hear it.

The user guide really does describe each dial in detail I made sure of that. So you if you are diligent you should be able to play with each dial and hear the difference.

Do not experiment with other types of noise or distortion turned on since then obviously you are not going to hear much of a difference. Start with a clean oscillator with the partials dial turned up to around 100. Spectral distortion has extremely low aliasing because it is actually operating on each individual harmonic partial independently so you will not hear it if other types of high aliasing distortion are enabled.

The dials on the left Amplitude, Phase, Frequency turn up the amount of each type of spectral distortion. Below each dial are the Time dials and they set the time scale of each type of spectral distortion to Sync which is locked to the oscillator period or Free which is freely modulating.

On the right side Partial Min is just that, the lowest partial being modulated, Partial Center is the center at which max modulation will occur, Partial Width is the width of maximum modulation I would just leave that on 5 to start. Partial Max is the highest partial being modulated. Use these dials to define a window of harmonic partials being modulated. If you low frequency distortion set them to 5, 15, 5, 50. If you want high frequency distortion set them to 10,30, 10, 75.

The dials on the lower right I would not mess with unless you study the manual carefully.

[RPH]

ok, but the VST3 of Fathom Vector version says; AVX not present (license present), so enabling it, won't work.
tried it in Reaper 6.51, Bitwig Studio 4.0.8.

the VST2 version of Fathom Vector (3.7); AVX present, so i can enable it...

Thanks for reporting this WasteLand, I can confirm this as well in Reaper and Renoise DAW.
Sent a report to Everett.
I also found the VST3 version shows a "made by Juce" logo on load while the VST2 version does not.

[Totolitoto]

Hello
Is there any other way to update Fathom than the settings page?
It's "sending request to server" forever

[RPH]

Hello
Is there any other way to update Fathom than the settings page?
It's "sending request to server" forever

Hi,

Odd. I've tested it here and I immediately get a response back from the server.
What I also did was pay for the update here.

[] Peter:H []

Use these dials to define a window of harmonic partials being modulated. If you low frequency distortion set them to 5, 15, 5, 50. If you want high frequency distortion set them to 10,30, 10, 75.

The dials on the lower right I would not mess with unless you study the manual carefully.

I have tried what you suggested. No difference to my ears other then switching spectrum modulation on/off. I have exactly used the two different sets of settings and bounced the wave forms. The bounces look exactly the same, they don't produce different sounds. When I loop the sequence the bounces are based on - and modifiy the dials to the right - there's no difference in sound at all. I'm puzzled
I have used the metamorphic oscillator, dragged it to the routing window. Only edits were on the "Spectrum" Tab, no other edits, no other modules.

Fathom Spectral Settings.png

For the second bounce here's the complete settings page of the metamorphic oscillator

Fathom Spectral Settings Dials.png

Test Coordinates: FathomVector 3.7, VST2 (VST3 does not give me AVX2), Bitwig 4.2 or Cubase 12, Windows 10.
-
I have then used my eyes on Fatoms spectrum display in the routing window. There's no change. Same when I add a EQ right after Fathom and watch the spectrum. There's no change when using the dials...

[RPH]

I have tried what you suggested. No difference to my ears.

What I notice so far:
- Spectrum mod ON in the Metamorphic OSC: distortion or FM doesn't work. Turn OFF Spectrum mod and distortion or FM works.
- Spectrum mod ON in the Additive OSC: distortion works, but FM doesn't work. Turn OFF Spectrum Mod and FM works.

I must say Spectrum Mod and Segment Mod really add something new to designing sounds in Fathom

[FathomSynth]

The settings upgrade requires socket communication and Mac OSX does not allow this.

I have confirmed that AVX2 does not appear to be available in VST3 so I will try to fix that.

I will check into some of the features being mutually disabled with Spectrum Modulation such as FM.

Peter, I'm not sure why you are not hearing differences. Make sure you have the Partials dial turned up to 100 or the partials won't exist that you are attempting to modulate.

A couple suggestions. Try experimenting with each type of modulation, amp, phase, frequency one at a time not all at the same time as in your picture. Try setting the frequency range very narrow. The following settings are for the dials on the upper right.

Low frequency modulation: 1, 10, 1, 20.
High frequency moduation: 20, 40, 10, 75

I currently have it set so that spectral modulation only works for one oscillator at a time. I did this because the CPU usage is so high. If this is confusing to people I can remove that limitation. Be aware it will drive CPU over limits.

It looks like I will have to do another release to fix the VST3 AVX2 problem so I can make some changes in the same release if people recommend them.

[WasteLand]

The settings upgrade requires socket communication and Mac OSX does not allow this.

I have confirmed that AVX2 does not appear to be available in VST3 so I will try to fix that.

I will check into some of the features being mutually disabled with Spectrum Modulation such as FM.

Peter, I'm not sure why you are not hearing differences. Make sure you have the Partials dial turned up to 100 or the partials won't exist that you are attempting to modulate.

A couple suggestions. Try experimenting with each type of modulation, amp, phase, frequency one at a time not all at the same time as in your picture. Try setting the frequency range very narrow. The following settings are for the dials on the upper right.

Low frequency modulation: 1, 10, 1, 20.
High frequency moduation: 20, 40, 10, 75

I currently have it set so that spectral modulation only works for one oscillator at a time. I did this because the CPU usage is so high. If this is confusing to people I can remove that limitation. Be aware it will drive CPU over limits.

It looks like I will have to do another release to fix the VST3 AVX2 problem so I can make some changes in the same release if people recommend them.

very helpfull guidelines, i assumed the partial center was relative to the settings min-max, but it is absolute..
already did the one by one thing, but partial center and width are absolute settings, it makes sense, both are logical, i assumed relative (if that is clear..).

those numbers are great guidelines..

well, CPU is high indeed, but didn't work yet on my desktop that can take (system + soundinterface) a lot of more load. a lot..

till now i do not find it limiting. but, you can't always notice it, but i try to make patches with a very low count of generators, effects etc. more workflow, and to achieve a lot with.. o wel, of course sometimes high count of generators/effects in other environments. not dogmatic.

there is a multi-thread setting in Fathom (multi-thread still a strange term, but even cpu brands use it, or they started it..), but it does not seem to balance a load of to many cores (which by the way does not always work that well with other synths).

Fathom still depends very much on one core i believe. but i can be mistaken.

will work with the new version the coming days, even my laptop holds it, quite well actually. but still cpu hungry, but that is not strange.

it would be great indeed if FM and AM will still work with Spectrum Modulation. by the way. one of things i use a lot. AM is underrated, by the way.. FM never overrated..

[FathomSynth]

I will check if AM and FM can be done at the same time as spectral distortion.

There will be a quick new release 3.8 which will include the following:

Fathom Vector VST3 will have Intel AVX2.
I will be removing the one oscillator limit for Spectral Modulation.
Be aware this means CPU management will be the user's responsibility.
Spectral Modulation will take precedence over AVX2 since you can't do both at the same time.
Still working on the Mac OSX release.

Peter have you fixed your problem with not hearing the difference.
Turn off AFX2 as that will disable spectral modulation.

If anyone has any other requests for this release please post them here tonight or very early tomorrow.
I will building release 3.8 and that will be the last release for a long time while I work on GPU processing.
Anything reported after I build the release 3.8 will have to wait until the next release.

[WasteLand]

I will check if AM and FM can be done at the same time as spectral distortion.

There will be a quick new release 3.8 which will include the following:

Fathom Vector VST3 will have Intel AVX2.
I will be removing the one oscillator limit for Spectral Modulation.
Be aware this means CPU management will be the user's responsibility.
Spectral Modulation will take precedence over AVX2 since you can't do both at the same time.
Still working on the Mac OSX release.

Peter have you fixed your problem with not hearing the difference.
Turn off AFX2 as that will disable spectral modulation.

If anyone has any other requests for this release please post them here tonight or very early tomorrow.
I will building release 3.8 and that will be the last release for a long time while I work on GPU processing.
Anything reported after I build the release 3.8 will have to wait until the next release.

Turn off AFX2 as that will disable spectral modulation. a bit unclear statement.

the spectral modulation is also dependent on the register you play, if you play high or low notes.

the spectral modulation has a range of 100 partials.

the problem perhaps, i don't know, if you like for example at Music Developments Syne, it creates more partials with each module added, sometimes the flow of partials is a bit enigmatic.

the partial flow, a flow-chart...

i use also, a not released module, that has 64 partials, with per partial envelope, PM, AM, etc.
you must do all yourself, which makes the flow of partials, well there are 64 max, you set the one on you want, it is quite easy.

also in Syne, there is logic.

of course Fathom (Vector) has is logic, because of all the possibilites of an oscillator, the basic range of partials, can result in more partials, or else the oscialltors don't have that range setting, that is more a result setting.

do the 1 - 100 partials of spectral modulation, only modulate the first 100 partials, or if you set it to 200, or 300. 1 - 100 means; for example; 1 to 300?

the different partial settings, and counting, and i am still not well-versed in Fathom Vector, but i am getting there, i dive in deep settings and modulation...

but indeed, must study more about the behavior of the oscillators, and in this case the additive/spectral based oscilators.

but, perhaps it is already in the manual, but partial count, the different settings, can be confusing, perhaps only for me? because it is meant to make the workflow easier, and that means more stuff is done under the hood, and you have no direct control, as in the example of that module i mentioned (for a soft modular).

there are other synths that work the same, well not the same of course, but with more abstract layers, to call it that way.

perhaps i am misunderstanding the flow in an oscillator, but i repeat; i made a preset that had spectral modulation, or has, only in a lower register, it was quite pronounced. and great, by the way.

perhaps not a very clear post. i am still learning Fathom Vector, do it from scratch, making presets, with the experience i have, but Fathom Vector has it is own (work)lfow, which of course gives its own character and possibilites.

i must still get feeling how all is 'flowing'. that is also, of course, my 'problem', working with it experimenting, listening, RTFM. etc.

perhaps this post won't help, or perhaps it will.

great synth, in the last weeks i had finally the time, to deep dive into it, so many other projects had to be finished, and it will end up in new tracks.

perhaps i take the too complex road, which i sometimes do, and that fails, at some point, alhough i learn from it.

Fathom Vector is not a full additive synth, to call it that way, but has a lot of possibilties, in that department of course.. it is a full additive synth, but in my world a full additive synth can do per partial, more work, fine tuning, but AM, PM, FM (pitch), ADSR per partial.. it is another way of working of course.

i get that Fathom Vector has another approach but use additive synthesis as a basis for some of the oscillators, with it is own, powerfull approach. recognizable as additive, well there are other examples of soft synths who do this (sometimes with oscillators that a granular/additive/spectral, combi... Zebra 2 for example.).

but more to the point; ok, spectral modulation, i understand of course center and width (that are known approaches), but 1 - 100 partial range. is that really only the first 100?

i must approach, my questions, as a total newcomer, which i am, in a way, it is much better, more clear.

in the oscilator itself you set

Partials
The maximum number of partials. This dial is the same as the Partials dial for all the other
oscillators.

AND

Partials Max
Determines the maximum frequency of partials included in the output independent of the note
being played. The default value is 22000 which is the maximum frequency which can be
accommodated at a sample rate of 44100 without aliasing.
Set this dial to 10,000 if you want the maximum frequency content of the output to be 10K hertz
regardless of the note being played

aha Partials Max, are in way controlling the number of partials, the distrubition. of course! (or not).

if you have 100 partials, which series they follow, at which frequencies are the 'active', each (odd/even).

so Max the determines the distribution?

and i see now in the manual FM/AM, i made mistakes i believe... i must read that section better, or mistakes, there is more possible, i already thought so, but the behavior is specialized, to call it that way.

i am getting there

TL;DR

but hopefull it is usefull..

so number of Partials, and Partials Max... i get now, writing this with manual open, well a manual i do read them!!!, but i had to do this earlier...

but still in Spectral Modulation the range 1 - 100... the relationship. relative/absolute?

[FathomSynth]

Folks, if you have any feature requests or bugs in 3.7 make sure you post them here today. Tomorrow will be the 3.8 release and anything posted after that will have to wait a few weeks until the next release.

FM works fine at the same time as spectral modulation in my testing so I’m not sure why people said it can not be done at the same time.

I fixed the problem in VST3 not working with Intel AVX2 so that will be released in version 3.8.

To answer your question the maximum number of spectral modulation harmonic partials is 100. Partials are always relative to the note. That is the first partial is the sin wave with a frequency of the note. The second partial is the frequency of the note multiplied by two, etc.

I have disabled the one oscillator limit on spectral modulation so you can do it now with more than one oscillator. CPU limits will be up to the user.

[RPH]

FM works fine at the same time as spectral modulation in my testing so I’m not sure why people said it can not be done at the same time.

Hi Everett,

Maybe I do not understand how Spectrum mod works.
What I did:

Additive OSC
- Turn spectrum mod ON and keep the spectrum mod frequency at zero.
- Turn on FM and tweak parameters: I do not hear FM
- Set spectrum mod frequency to anything but zero: I do hear FM.

I fixed the problem in VST3 not working with Intel AVX2 so that will be released in version 3.8.

Great, thanks!

[] Peter:H []

I found out that I have to add at least one modulator to the Spectral Settings to make them work on my system.
Funny thing - the modulator only kind of "activated" the dials but whether I add a LFO or and ADSR makes no difference. Same for the Modulalation modes like "bipolar" or "subtractive"...