KVR Audio

tommyzai · Post by **tommyzai** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:51 pm

Clips in a "live matrix"/clip launching have been around a while, with Ableton leading the way (not the first, but the most famous for sure). More and more DAWs are adding this functionality to accompany their more traditional linear arrangement; yet, they are usually add-ons. Farrago by Rogue Amoeba offers soundboards, which is handy for viewing options, but not flexible enough to compose with.

Are there any DAWs or other software workstations that are primary clip-based/matrix . . . possibly w/o a linear arrangement?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:57 pm

Any DAWs not got a version of this feature you mean? Project 5 and then Cakewalk (nee Sonar) had this since before any of the ones you mentioned. There's the Arranger Track in Cubase, Clips Window in Digital Performer, Performance Mode in FL.

About the only things I can think of that doesnt have some version of it are ProTools and Samplitude.

tommyzai · Post by **tommyzai** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:10 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:57 pmAbout the only things I can think of that doesnt have some version of it are ProTools and Samplitude.

Other DAWs do not have a clip option. The two you listed, plus Reaper and . . .

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:12 pm

tommyzai wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:10 pm
whyterabbyt wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:57 pmAbout the only things I can think of that doesnt have some version of it are ProTools and Samplitude.
Other DAWs do not have a clip option. The two you listed, plus Reaper and . . .

that's my point. 8 named with it so far, and you've only named 1 of the 3 without.

Plus there's a Reaper addon which covers it, AFAIR.

tommyzai · Post by **tommyzai** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:22 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:12 pm
tommyzai wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:10 pm
whyterabbyt wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:57 pmAbout the only things I can think of that doesnt have some version of it are ProTools and Samplitude.
Other DAWs do not have a clip option. The two you listed, plus Reaper and . . .
that's my point. 8 named with it so far, and you've only named 1 of the 3 without.
Plus there's a Reaper addon which covers it, AFAIR.

I'm talking about dedicated, full-blown Clip-Based workstation features . . . not little add-ons, special modes, and work-arounds. Ableton is at 50%.

I'll adjust the thread to be more clear. Not in the mood to argue . . . just get what's needed to make music.

Dionysos · Post by **Dionysos** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:07 am

tommyzai wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:22 pm I'm talking about dedicated, full-blown Clip-Based workstation features

...like? Any examples of what specifically you're talking about? Which DAW these days isn't clip-based? Ableton is at 50% of what?

tommyzai · Post by **tommyzai** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:33 am

Have I slipped into an alternate reality? Ableton has two "views" that can be toggled, right? One is clip based and one is linear for arranging on a timeline . . . hence 1/2 or 50% of it's potential workflow is clip based. So, what I'm asking is . . . are there any workstations of any kind that use clips as its primary method . . . more than Live does? Of all the DAWS there are, MOST are NOT clip based! Logic is NOT clip based. Reaper is NOT clip based. StudioOne is NOT clip based. ProTools is NOT clip based . . . And so on. Anyone who believes most DAWs primarily focus is on launching clips is simply WRONG! This is one of the main reasons why Live continues to be unique, despite other DAWs adding this feature to their linear workflow, either built-in or via 3rd party. Can anyone back me up on this because I'm really starting to wonder if I lost my mind or slipped into a digital audio blackhole.

Dionysos · Post by **Dionysos** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:49 am

Your terminology is off, that's all. In Ableton's arranger and the linear timelines of most DAWs, you're still working with clips.

What you're talking about when you speak of "clips" is a session view, or a clip launcher, or a live matrix, or whatever. It's not just "clips". Hope this helps.

It may also be useful to understand what advantage you'd expect from a live-matrix-only tool over using Live or Bitwig and simply ignoring the arranger.

tommyzai · Post by **tommyzai** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:27 pm

I've adjusted my initial question. Hopefully that clears things up. Each company seems to have a slightly different terminology for this. Technically, everything recorded can be called an audio "clip." I'm talking about non-linear chunks of audio sitting in a virtual container that can be launched Matrix. I'm simply wondering if there are any workstations that use this approach exclusively? Not an add-on feature or even a shared (arranger & session) feature like Ableton Live

cel4145 · Post by **cel4145** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:41 pm

Bitwig's clip launcher implementation makes it very easy to do 95% of your music composing and arrangement in it without having to compose in the arranger timeline.

And unlike Ableton, you can view the clip launcher and arrange your timeline in the same display and drag back and forth between them. So in early music production, I basically use the timeline as a scratch space, and do all of my arranging in the clip launcher.

Here's a useful video for seeing what I mean. Skip forward to 2:45 to see the side by side display

danielh02 · Post by **danielh02** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:18 pm

tommyzai wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:51 pm Clips in a "live matrix"/clip launching have been around a while, with Ableton leading the way (not the first, but the most famous for sure). More and more DAWs are adding this functionality to accompany their more traditional linear arrangement; yet, they are usually add-ons. Farrago by Rogue Amoeba offers soundboards, which is handy for viewing options, but not flexible enough to compose with.

Are there any DAWs or other software workstations that are primary clip-based/matrix . . . possibly w/o a linear arrangement?

Mulab 9 (currently in development) has added a Live Matrix (aka "Clip") view which can be played along with it's timeline view. It can be a stand-alone DAW or a plugin which means you can have a clip/timeline view in any DAW host.

https://www.mutools.com/info/M9/docs/index.html

There's a long development thread in the MUTOOLS forum here at KVR.

-Dan

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:45 pm

There are many clip-based sampler-sequencer (often +hardware) options, but the important "option" isn't the technology it's the user's workflow.

I can use MuLab as only a sampler-sequencer because I can create markers in a sample and open it in all Mux devices. The integration is amazing.

I don't use Live but I am a big fan of Thomas Piper who uses only session view to improvise beats using selected sounds. His latest (#173!) premiered a few minutes ago:

check out his album:
https://thomaspiper.bandcamp.com/album/ ... on-to-live

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:41 am

danielh02 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:18 pm Mulab 9 (currently in development) has added a Live Matrix (aka "Clip") view which can be played along with it's timeline view. It can be a stand-alone DAW or a plugin which means you can have a clip/timeline view in any DAW host.

https://www.mutools.com/info/M9/docs/index.html

There's a long development thread in the MUTOOLS forum here at KVR.

-Dan

what???
this is excellent, but wow -- so, IMS for the Atari had a "playroom" (IIRC) which was a clip launcher, ala Ableton's most famous feature. The same programmer -- correct me if I'm wrong? -- made Muzys, which also had it. I missed purchasing Muzys by about a week, when It disappeared, the IP having been acquired (as far as anyone could tell...? again, correct me if I'm wrong.) and thus missed out on the clip-launching goodness. Then, years later, the same programmer re-appeared, made MuLab.... and now it's finally getting its clip launcher back! it's like a 30 year cycle here finally being completed hahaha

Is this kind of interesting or am I just a huge nerd / easily amused??

don't answer that.

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:52 am

Z3R0T0N1N wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:41 am Then, years later, the same programmer re-appeared, made MuLab.... and now it's finally getting its clip launcher back! it's like a 30 year cycle here finally being completed hahaha

Is this kind of interesting or am I just a huge nerd / easily amused??

You are correct about the Atari Intuitive Midi System > Muzys > MuLab 9.
The completion of that very cool cycle was brought up just a week ago on the kvr MuTools forum

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:40 am

Michael L wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:52 am You are correct about the Atari Intuitive Midi System > Muzys > MuLab 9.
The completion of that very cool cycle was brought up just a week ago on the kvr MuTools forum

cool! haha I'm late to the party again

after making that post, I actually went to the muTools website, and saw that the whole history is there! I started on an Atari 1040ste, with C-Lab Creator, and this stuff is really interesting to me. I wasn't a computer guy at all back then, and basically Creator was all I knew of.

If I get some time I'm going to DL the demo and check it out.

Matrix Clip-Based Workstation Options