PG-8X (2.0) released

[jamcat]

Bottom line is that ARM CPUs don't show the muscle needed to compete with Intel. They can only compete in laptops and lower consumption machines (low end). Show me an high end computer based on these.

1. My MacBook Pro outperforms my 8-core Intel desktop.

2. Mac Studio

3. The forthcoming (June) M2 Mac Pro with 48 processing cores and 128 GPU cores.

[EvilDragon]

True, Mac Studio does seem like a beefy mofo in a very compact package. Still too expensive for base config (and really curious how it benches vs AMD's 3950X), but all prices are going up anyways.

You’re still on 32-bit?

Nah he's not, but at least we can still run 32-bit programs on a 64-bit OS on Windows.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

*snip*

Yeah, all that stuff sucks. Still not an excuse to act like a jerk to the guy.

Try treating human beings with human decency. Yes, even if you want stuff from them. Especially if you want stuff from them. And the next time you want to be able to make demands, start by sending a contract.

You mentioned that the chorus is the part you found hardest to replace. Why don't you work on cloning that instead of arguing about the performance characteristics of hardware that won't be announced for months or years?

[audiojunkie]

Or you know... you could also... move to Windows and keep on using it.

Or even Linux for that matter.

[fmr]

Bottom line is that ARM CPUs don't show the muscle needed to compete with Intel. They can only compete in laptops and lower consumption machines (low end). Show me an high end computer based on these.

1. My MacBook Pro outperforms my 8-core Intel desktop.

Then your 8-core Intel desktop is really old and/or lousy.

2. Mac Studio

Having to pay almost 5.000 euros for something equivalent to a 2.500 desktop PC, both in terms of CPU power as well as RAM (not mentioning store capacity, which I can mount several TB inside the box), is really "a deal"

And some benchmarks I already saw doesn't seem very promising, in what concerns raw CPU power. It may be great for video pros, not so much for audio.

3. The forthcoming (June) M2 Mac Pro with 48 processing cores and 128 GPU cores.

I don't comment "forthcomings". Let them come, and we will make the comparisons then. Don't forget that Intel and AMD are in the market too, and they are not just "watching"

[gearwatcher]

Actually if Intel's 12th gen Core CPUs and Apple Silicon show anything it's that ARM is clearly able to outpace x86 (which if you understand CPUs is pretty easy to anticipate, as the design carries way, way less baggage).

12th gen Intel CPUs show all the signs of "squeezing water from stone", barely outpacing what is the first generation of mainstream desktop ARM CPUs whereas various ARM makers are only getting started.

If you are in the cloud space you can see how modern ARM designs like Graviton wipe the floor with Intel counterparts in equally CPU bound loads:

https://www.haproxy.com/blog/haproxy-fo ... -instance/

[fmr]

Actually if Intel's 12th gen Core CPUs and Apple Silicon show anything it's that ARM is clearly able to outpace x86 (which if you understand CPUs is pretty easy to anticipate, as the design carries way, way less baggage).

12th gen Intel CPUs show all the signs of "squeezing water from stone", barely outpacing what is the first generation of mainstream desktop ARM CPUs whereas various ARM makers are only getting started.

If you are in the cloud space you can see how modern ARM designs like Graviton wipe the floor with Intel counterparts in equally CPU bound loads:

https://www.haproxy.com/blog/haproxy-fo ... -instance/

Oh really?

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/i ... ple-m1-max

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Oh really?

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/i ... ple-m1-max

So the 16-core desktop chip has similar single-core and better multicore performance than the 10-core laptop chip that uses way less power? I'm not sure we're reading that the same way.

You can even see there that the M1 chip there was developed with a 5nm process, whereas the new Intels are only 10nm. Hence a big part of the reason Intel has fallen behind. And they'll admit it too. They brought a new CEO with a chip design background to try to get Intel back on track and they're investing in new facilities to get to smaller more efficient transistors.

[fmr]

Oh really?

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/i ... ple-m1-max

So the 16-core desktop chip has similar single-core and better multicore performance than the 10-core laptop chip that uses way less power? I'm not sure we're reading that the same way.

Since when 29% more performance is "similar"? We definetly aren't reading it the same way. First: We are not discussing how much power each one uses. We are discusssing CPU porwer, not power consumption. And you should read everything, not just the "review" results (whatever that is). The benchmarks are clear.

Positive points of each one:

Intel Core i9 12900K:
Unlocked multiplier
Supports up to 128 GB DDR5-4800 RAM
Has 6 more physical cores
63% higher Turbo Boost frequency (5.2 GHz vs 3.2 GHz)
13% faster in a single-core Geekbench v5 test - 2000 vs 1774 points

Apple M1 Max:
Around 332.8 GB/s (433%) higher theoretical memory bandwidth
Consumes up to 76% less energy than the Core i9 12900K – 30 vs 125 Watt
More modern manufacturing process – 5 versus 10 nanometers

The ones that matter (to me) clearly pend to the same side.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Oh really?

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/i ... ple-m1-max

So the 16-core desktop chip has similar single-core and better multicore performance than the 10-core laptop chip that uses way less power? I'm not sure we're reading that the same way.

Sincve when 29% more performance is similar? We definetly aren't reading it the same way. You need to read the whole, not just the "review" results (whatever that is). The benchmarks are clear.

My point is "no sh*t, of course it's faster." It's a 16-core desktop PC that uses a ton of power and you're comparing to a laptop chip. My AMD Ryzen 3950x is almost certainly faster at multi-core than my 2021 MBP too, but that doesn't mean the 2021 MBP isn't an insanely efficient beast that performs exceptionally well.

But we digress...there's lots of threads in the Computer forum for this talk. Lets keep it out of the PG-8X thread.

[gearwatcher]

Oh really?

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/i ... ple-m1-max

12900K is the epitome of "sqeeze water from stone". 8x more power consumption in top of the line desktop CPU to barely shoot over few percentage points over that laptop M1 Max CPU. It's an equivalent of a gas guzzler supercar sweating to race with first generation luxury electric.

And Graviton2 would, based on figures above, if it was generally available as an off-the-shell CPU, wipe the floor with it at likely 1/4th of TDP or less.

I have M1 Max in my work laptop, I don't do music on it, I'm a software engineer, the computer is company provided and I tend to keep my baskets separated, but I did do some benchmarks. It is proven to be 2x the power of my music machine (which is also a laptop, Windows one running i7 10750H).

Running a bunch of plugins on a bunch of channels is about as close to perfectly parallelizable tasks as one gets. I got 280 voices of Ableton Wavetable (at 512 samples, because Core Audio is still better than any ASIO implementation) in native M1 Live before first audible dropouts appear, compared to 145 voices (at 2048 samples) on the i7. It was nearly double using Rosetta (i.e. emulating x86) on M1 Max it got to 260 voices before the first audible dropouts so still almost double the power of an Intel running Intel code.

And that Windows machine is not very old, it's a 2020 model.

A computer like that M1 Ultra Mac Studio, will nearly double the processing power of the M1 Max, meaning it will be some 180% of the raw processing power of the 12900K. And it's still just 1st gen tech with ample space for optimizations and improvements, which Intel has been at for decades with very disappointing results recently.

And, we are still talking Apple, which are notoriously overpriced and just a single player.

When Microsoft gets its ARM game to a decent level, you will have heaps of mobile CPU manufacturers, as well as companies like Ampere designing desktop and laptop ARM CPUs and a properly fierce competition.

AMD itself are already investing in ARM R&D. It's quite evident where the industry is headed. For those of us with more ties to datacenters it has been for a while, way before Apple made their M series move.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

There are better threads in another subform for discussing CPU architecture.

Here's one: viewtopic.php?t=568384

[chk071]

I like this plugin. Very warm sound. I first thought the filter sounded kind of cold/digital, bit in the direction of the Jupiter. But, I think this synth really shines when you use the chorus. Just like many of the other Roland synths as well.

[AnX]

Waiting years for updates on free stuff is a mugs game, you really should have moved on early doors, regardless of promises

Everything has a risk, and shit happens, so not all promises can be kept. You need to make provisions for these scenarios....

I'm sure the sounds can easily be produced in a diff synth that works in your current/future set ups if you make a bit of effort.

The closest to the JX-8P Hi Strings is probably the Juno Hi Strings, which I have tried. They are too different even with adjusting the envelope on the Juno. Mostly because the JX-8P chorus is unique. It’s a classic synth known particularly for its strings, and nothing else does them quite the same.

I use it specifically for those strings. Finding the perfect string pad has been probably the most difficult part of getting the sound I’m after, surprisingly.

I'm afraid I can't download it to listen at this time

[EvilDragon]

You can stream it from Synthmania site. https://synthmania.com/2012/06/03/roland-jx-8p/