apple M1 chip makers gone.

[BONES]

You're kidding, right? Moore's Law suggests that a 2022 computer should be more than 64 times faster than one from 2012. If the difference wasn't night and day, I'd be sending it back.

I believe the idea will eventually outdo all windows processors.

Why? It's not a new idea, RISC lost out to Intel in the 1990s (DEC Alpha) and there's nothing new in there to suggest that it will do any better this time around.

Windows needs m1 more than mac does.

You have been able to buy ARM powered Windows computers for several years but guess what? Nobody is interested. It offers no advantages, as we see regularly when the M1 and its derivatives are put up against Intel and AMD based machines. Apple's silicon is competitive, there's no reason not to buy it, but in the end it's still behind Intel and AMD when it comes to real world performance.

My M1 MBP loads everything far faster than I've ever witnessed. Its performance, restricted to Rosetta as I am due to the particulars, is life-changingly good.

If you only buy a computer every few years, Moore's Law says that should always be the case. I buy a new one every year and I am still impressed by the step up in performance I get most times. e.g. Last night I was running the EVO 8 with my new laptop with an 8 sample buffer at 96kHz and it worked fine for the first few songs I loaded. It's only when I got to something CPU heavy that I realised it was running on the fastest settings and, even then, it was only the odd pop that clued me in. My previous laptop, which was just last year's version of this one, wouldn't have been able to play anything with those settings.

Anyway, as to the original thread, I can't see that a couple of engineers jumping ship at this point in the programme will make much difference. I'm sure the next couple of generations are well advanced already and there will be plenty of people left who can carry it forward.

[FapFilter]

Apple Silicon is competitive while drawing just 1/5th of the power compared to the latest i9 12900.
That's not bad at all for good laptop battery life incl. not having to throttle a good portion of it's actual performance so it won't drain the battery in no time while also remaining dead silent for music production.

It's also very good at draining almost nothing in sleep mode compared to Intel laptops and they wake up instantly.

Of course Intel still has some room for improvements in these regards as Alder Lake is just 10nm compared to the 5 in the current Apple Silicon.

In the Windows world it's also really hard to find powerful laptops with great CPUs that don't come with overpowered GPUs for people who don't want to game or render CGI movies, thus having to live with even worse battery life and thermals.
I'm constantly looking, but don't find (m)any, though I’d probably only realistically get one of these again if they also have comparable power consumptions to well designed ARM processors (or other more modern designs)

[egbert]

Quoting feature sizes in nm has become a little confused lately because Intel's 10 nm resembles the dimensions of the TSMC process at 7nm (used by AMD, Nvidia, Qualcom etc) and so on. Intel is adressing this marketing issue by quoting new names for processes that match the AMD scaling. Intel has foundered to a degree since Skylake (2015) in its attempt to move forward on process tech. That is what happens to big firms like Intel and Boeing when they hand the company over to accountants.

Pat Gelsinger is back in the saddle at Intel so they should get their engineering ducks in a row again and with Intel and AMD both making some real progress on core counts and power efficiency it should be good time to build DAWs over the next while if the shortages of components are resolved. Storage was always a major bottle neck on personal computers but NVME SSDs are solving that problem pretty much.

[kingozrecords]

I believe the idea will eventually outdo all windows processors.

Why? It's not a new idea, RISC lost out to Intel in the 1990s (DEC Alpha) and there's nothing new in there to suggest that it will do any better this time around.

Windows needs m1 more than mac does.

You have been able to buy ARM powered Windows computers for several years but guess what? Nobody is interested. It offers no advantages, as we see regularly when the M1 and its derivatives are put up against Intel and AMD based machines. Apple's silicon is competitive, there's no reason not to buy it, but in the end it's still behind Intel and AMD when it comes to real world performance.

Well, power consumption-wise, I like the idea. I think it shows promise, but you make good points. Likely I'd get an i5 or i9 with good power for windows. If mac, I wouldn't get a mac mini again, maybe I'd get one of the beasts they sell.

It seems with mac that's the only way to get the power you'd need. Expensive.

[jancivil]

their false advertising and the fake testimonies of thousands swearing by speed that can't match a 2013 processor and a 2016 mobo was very convincing, but it was a phone's processor made into a cpu.

If you did what I do on a computer you would know about its performance. Here's just some chest-pounding bullshit posturing, unsupported by anything. And you actually have the temerity to question people's integrity as glibly as that with as extreme an assertion as that. I bought the least expensive stock model of the new generation of M1 MBP and it _smokes_ my 2019 top-end MBP for my rather high demands-work case. You have no idea what you're on about, and your use case is what, a webcam?
Maybe you know windows but this, bullshit. Check yourself for scruples before projecting.

[kingozrecords]

their false advertising and the fake testimonies of thousands swearing by speed that can't match a 2013 processor and a 2016 mobo was very convincing, but it was a phone's processor made into a cpu.

If you did what I do on a computer you would know about its performance. Here's just some chest-pounding bullshit posturing, unsupported by anything. And you actually have the temerity to question people's integrity as glibly as that with as extreme an assertion as that. I bought the least expensive stock model of the new generation of M1 MBP and it _smokes_ my 2019 top-end MBP for my rather high demands-work case. You have no idea what you're on about, and your use case is what, a webcam?
Maybe you know windows but this, bullshit. Check yourself for scruples before projecting.

Projecting means a physical action, and that action causing harm. A gtx 1050 ti is a gpu that costs 200, and the like or equivalent does not belong in a 1000 dollar machine. It's complacency like the above which makes it "reasonable" for apple to do so to their customers. A gpu comparable to a 2013 model albeit.

It does project however in the case of apple when I or others have to buy another computer for jobs like audio tutorials and promotion whether for free or otherwise after such a sobering reality dawns on them.

If a company like apple wants to make more money from a system which is capable of doing all of these things well, I'll pay; even if hundreds more - But they should tell Me that I need to pay. I should only have to pay once, I expect honest advertising from a company that suggests they're making a product which is meeting the status quo. When it is not how then am I willing to spend more.

Anything else is just dishonest. To the rest of your quote; I won't respond to, because we're purely on the topic of M1's future, not to sell a product for a company like apple.

any company who makes videos about making audio or audio training, or even who is doing online gigs by the way of streaming so popular on youtube does not want to be embarrassed by the skipped frames. Professionals do the groundwork, they learn to use all manner of audio and video device effectively to make it in the industry.

What they don't do is complain about what a product "should" be capable of, they merely make it work somehow, even if it means buying more equipment.

That is everything music, there is no separating music from self promotion, just like in the act or art of production or presentation, performing is in fact promotion. The medium is the message, regardless of the delivery mechanism.

[sqigls]

Please don't argue with the crack-head

if this dude isn't AI, then he is a few short of a picnic.

[jancivil]

for me it's more calling bullshit than an argument, too to rise to the dignity of a genuine exchange of ideas.

particularly this reveal: "but it was a phone's processor made into a cpu."
We see you, you're not getting over at all with shittalking, and it's pure (and puerile) shittalking.

Insisting we all need your webcam (to mirror you) is absurd.
I'm into music qua music, not a youtube career as a talking head or a peddler. You do you, tho.

[jancivil]

it's a work of art
it's a thing of beauty

i haven't hit the ceiling yet, on macbook pro
the master buss alone would leave little headroom on my 2012 mbp, and on paper the new one is probably only 4 times as powerful. never heard the fans kick in either.

lot of it is the little things. For instance VE Pro with all of this loaded has always been a bear to quit. Always going to see the spinning beach ball, and the company has flat said, just force-quit it, it isn't going to hurt anything. I eventually found that "delete all instances" from the file menu was much quicker than a quit command, but it takes a few, ten seconds or something. NOW it's instantaneous. it lets go of memory in the System on Chip paradigm in literally a snap.

I was worried, I couldn't wait a month for a custom job or I'd run out of money, and I was sure I really needed at least the 32 even with the way memory pressure is now (with a 64GB system I was typically using up half of it for long stretches). But it's wildly outperforming that machine.

For the person dissing it so hard, look, guy, chances are pretty good that you're being read by people that really use the muscle of a machine. And it's abundantly evident you just do not, everything of the presentation screams it. You want to develop a reputation, careful what you wish for...

[BONES]

Well, power consumption-wise, I like the idea. I think it shows promise, but you make good points. Likely I'd get an i5 or i9 with good power for windows.

I thought that they'd blow everything else out of the water for power consumption but that hasn't been the case. Maybe they've put smaller batteries in them but their battery life isn't best in class, which is what I'd have expected.

It seems with mac that's the only way to get the power you'd need. Expensive.

I dunno, I think Mac pricing is getting better. They are almost competitive with premium PC laptops, like Dell's XPS, these days and since the departure of Jonny Ive, they've become a lot more practical, too. Of course, they can't run Windows any more so they are absolutely useless to me.

I bought the least expensive stock model of the new generation of M1 MBP and it _smokes_ my 2019 top-end MBP for my rather high demands-work case.

Your 2019 MB Pro had what, an 8th or 9th Gen CPU? That's 3 or 4 generations old now so I'd expect a new system based on a 12th gen Intel CPU to be around twice as powerful as your 2019 set-up. So what you're experiencing is likely not too different than it would be for anyone going from a 2019 laptop to a 2022 model. As I said, Apple silicon is competitive but it's not class leading. It's also likely to be much better optimised for macOS than the Intel processors were, which will likely make them seem better again.

[FapFilter]

Of course Intel CPUs never were optimized for laptop use and basically were pretty power hungry desktop designs which were a bit watered down for laptop use to not be quite as power hungry, while ARM technology always (after it's initial release in a desktop computer in 1984 or so) has been power efficient mobile tech, which now has been souped up to also become some viable and capable desktop tech.
The biggest problem with Intel MacBooks was, that Apple wants to be super slim and and also favors frying your CPU close to instant death instead of ramping up the fans too much, so the Intel CPUs had to throttle hard not to overheat and die, thus always staying far from their actual capabilities. Of course that would have meant worsened battery life, but still.

I love my Macbook(s) but they are not the most powerful consumer systems on the planet, nor are the Studios. They are great and may be all, or even more than you'd ever need, but it's not that no Intel or AMD system could match or outperform them… or even spank them really hard if you have enough cash for a $8000 just for the 64 core CPU and add an almost equally expensive dual Nvidia 3090 setup (of course one single 3090 is already more than enough to achieve this, “even“ the 3080 is, same goes for a single i12900)

[chagzuki]

I was looking at desktop PCs yesterday as I'm not sure I want to be locked into Apple products and I was surprised how expensive they are these days. The Mac Studio line is actually priced ok, but the Macbooks are where the value is IMO.

I think there's something wrong with kingozrecords' system, or perhaps just the webcam compatibility etc., but with M1 there are big differences in certain departments depending on whether software is optimised. That being said, a lot of people, myself included, have found that recent OS and Logic upgrades have caused audio stuttering problems. My system was running better a few months ago.

[kingozrecords]

I was looking at desktop PCs yesterday as I'm not sure I want to be locked into Apple products and I was surprised how expensive they are these days. The Mac Studio line is actually priced ok, but the Macbooks are where the value is IMO.

I think there's something wrong with kingozrecords' system, or perhaps just the webcam compatibility etc., but with M1 there are big differences in certain departments depending on whether software is optimised. That being said, a lot of people, myself included, have found that recent OS and Logic upgrades have caused audio stuttering problems. My system was running better a few months ago.

Thankfully I have been finding a few workarounds. Ultimately I believe it will come down to hacking the backend with terminal and making it faster. More palpable if you don't want to or need to update .

In the way of video I have also come up with some fixes. I use less filters and use My dsp background so to use less cpu overall with more efficient fx. It's not perfect, but it works.

My biggest challenge now is video processing, specifically with processing the voice. Products using rosetta like videopad sound bad. Perhaps I'll need to use obs or openshot. Might be .

I'm nearly at the level I was with My win system, and the bg processing is faster, which is great. I thought I would get a bit more out of it, but given its size; not the end of the world.

Now I need to meet the challenge of having a hdd around that's mac formatted to write to haha. I could always just use fat 32. I've been eyeing those docking stations which are in matching silver.