Ableton with 4k???

[SamDi]

Strange - am I the only one who has different experience/taste/perception whatever?

Scaling old plugins works best in Ableton for me. They might be blurry but at least they have a decent size and it's consistent.

The other way around with FL Studio, Tracktion Waveform, (Bitwig --> was solved then when I disabled plugin scaling)

Worst is Waveform, which seems to keep original resolution for the GUI graphics, but scale up the resolution for the GUI input, what means you are not able to click buttons or move faders anymore where they are displayed, instead they have to be clicked on an empty area outside of displayed borders then...

Second worst is FL Studio, where all these scaling options changed literally nothing on old plugins beeing much too small. Furthermore there was a different scaling behaviour between the at some plugin between VST2 and VST3 version, although the settings were the same. It was impossible to recognize a behavoir, which felt kind of deterministic there...

[Trancit]

Strange - am I the only one who has different experience/taste/perception whatever?

Scaling old plugins works best in Ableton for me. They might be blurry but at least they have a decent size and it's consistent.

...

Because we are talking about 2 different things here...

In Ableton for every plugin the Autoscaling is enabled (a joke on it´s own)...

This might be handy for plugins which do not have any native High Res graphics... but looks shit... blurry and unpleasant... that´s not why you take the disadvantages of 4k to have afterwards a blurry interface...
Besides more workspace you want to have crispy sharp and clean display...

Ableton sucks in the way that:
1. you have to disable manually plugin by plugin the autoscaling for being able to do the plugin does it´s work natively...
People with hundreds or thousands of plugins installed will be very happy about this extra amount of work...
2. To make Ableton work correctly I have to set my OS scaling to 100% and to scale everything else inside of the single programms... I refuse... f*ck you Ableton...
3. Ableton causes the most errors if you want native scaling of the plugins and don´t want the programm to dictate how to set your OS scaling...
4. All other DAWs do not suffer from this problems and work (mostly) just out of the box...
So why could one assume it would be everything correct in Ableton...?

[Markus Krause]

For best use, favor VST 2 versions of plugins. Lots of problems with VST 3's. Hard to say who is to blame

Scaling an HiDPI support with VST3 plugins is messed up as Steinberg's VST3 SDK has/had a massive number of bugs. This SDK is used by many plugins. When I programmed Warlock I have come across a bug in Steinberg's VSTGUI that causes an incorrect scaling with the GUI. Problems get worse if you use a HiDPI scaling other than 100%.

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/bug-inco ... ort/201794
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/slighty- ... ors/202071
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/studioon ... 8/201907/8
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/red-glit ... 4-9/683519
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/solved-h ... r-1/201819

[SamDi]

Strange - am I the only one who has different experience/taste/perception whatever?

Scaling old plugins works best in Ableton for me. They might be blurry but at least they have a decent size and it's consistent.

...

Because we are talking about 2 different things here...

In Ableton for every plugin the Autoscaling is enabled (a joke on it´s own)...

This might be handy for plugins which do not have any native High Res graphics... but looks shit... blurry and unpleasant... that´s not why you take the disadvantages of 4k to have afterwards a blurry interface...
Besides more workspace you want to have crispy sharp and clean display...

Oh, I didn't even know, that you can disable autoscaling for each plugin seperately. I tried it out and indeed - you are right. When disabling autoscaling the HighRes ready plugs are even more sharp. What is funny, because normally I am also pretty sensitive of unsharpness and blurryness.

But why wasn't it obvious to me? It was because my monitor does apply a sharpening algorithm, which impressively take this blurryness almost completely out. When I deactivated the sharpening filter I could comprehend what you all mean.

I do not dare to say, that I like the blurried and then resharped version maybe even a little bit more than the native sharp displaying. Don't laugh at me, normally I don't like such crutches. But it looks as the sharp version with a little bit edge smoothening applied and thus adding some nice "mojo". I mean, some like that for audio too.

3. Ableton causes the most errors if you want native scaling of the plugins and don´t want the programm to dictate how to set your OS scaling...
4. All other DAWs do not suffer from this problems and work (mostly) just out of the box...
So why could one assume it would be everything correct in Ableton...?

Sorry, but that's just not true! I understand, that Ableton is shit, by forcing you to deactivate autoscaling for each plugin, where you wanna have HighRes enabled.

But neither Ableton causes the most errors, nor all DAWs do not suffer from this problems. Because handling this topic good, would mean for me, also to provide a proper handling for non-HighRes plugins, but:
-Waveform - complete breakdown there
-FL Studio - independent, of how I change the settings, regarding resolution it just doesn't scale old plugs up
-Bitwig - just one global option for HighRes handling for all plugins

It doesn't help me when new plugins are sharp, but old then much too small...

So which DAWs, you refering to, do it better then?

If I have missed anything and I am to silly to handle it correctly, what could be - the same as I didn't know, that in Live you can set autoscaling individually - please let me know!

[parawave]

Rapid shows up like this:


All of these plugins are running fine in FL Studio, Studio One, Reaper...

I was searching a bit but I couldn´t find many topics where user claimed something like this...
Am I doing something wrong here???

Looked into this. Intially I thought: "Okay, Ableton changed something (again), perhaps they are finally using the correct DPI handling method. Maybe we're doing something wrong?"

So.. Time for debugging. Results: Everything DPI related is reported correctly. The logical coordinates, framebuffers and everything else match the requested values.

There seems to be some kind of missing DPI update call, because sometimes it's enough to drag/resize the window to enforce Ableton to update the underlaying window handle to update the DPI. Unfortunately this means that there isn't even a possibility for a workaround. Very strange.

If anyone wants to display Rapid correclty (without the blur) this is the recommended solution for now:

For best looking plugin support, right click the executable -> Properties -> Compatibility -> Change high DPI settings -> Check "Override high DPI scaling behavior. Scaling performed by:" -> change drop down to "Application". Then relaunch Live.

Oddly enough they recommended this for Live 9 on their support page:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... or-support

Related:
viewtopic.php?p=8404082

Ableton - Support:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

[rageix]

So.. Time for debugging. Results: Everything DPI related is reported correctly. The logical coordinates, framebuffers and everything else match the requested values.

There seems to be some kind of missing DPI update call, because sometimes it's enough to drag/resize the window to enforce Ableton to update the underlaying window handle to update the DPI. Unfortunately this means that there isn't even a possibility for a workaround. Very strange.

Yes this is true. I discovered when using Seventh Heaven professional if I changed the scaling factor in the plugin then it would display correctly. However when you reopen the plugin then it is not scaled correctly. So seems likely it's missing some kind of rescaling update when you open the plugin.

I wonder how Fabfilter gets around this? Their stuff works flawlessly without said dpi override settings.

Any chance you can pass your findings on to Ableton support? Maybe with more info from a plugin developer they can finally put this to bed.

[pierb]

Yes this is true. I discovered when using Seventh Heaven professional if I changed the scaling factor in the plugin then it would display correctly. However when you reopen the plugin then it is not scaled correctly. So seems likely it's missing some kind of rescaling update when you open the plugin.

I wonder how Fabfilter gets around this? Their stuff works flawlessly without said dpi override settings.

Any chance you can pass your findings on to Ableton support? Maybe with more info from a plugin developer they can finally put this to bed.

U-He also works flawlessly.

Although I'm inclined to think it's mainly an issue with Live. I had tons of issues with 4K on Windows with it. Plugins like Pigments not scaling correctly, or Valhalla stuff forgetting the window size. All these issues disappeared on Bitwig and Cubase.

[Trancit]

Looked into this. Intially I thought: "Okay, Ableton changed something (again), perhaps they are finally using the correct DPI handling method. Maybe we're doing something wrong?"

So.. Time for debugging. Results: Everything DPI related is reported correctly. The logical coordinates, framebuffers and everything else match the requested values.

There seems to be some kind of missing DPI update call, because sometimes it's enough to drag/resize the window to enforce Ableton to update the underlaying window handle to update the DPI. Unfortunately this means that there isn't even a possibility for a workaround. Very strange.

If anyone wants to display Rapid correclty (without the blur) this is the recommended solution for now:

For best looking plugin support, right click the executable -> Properties -> Compatibility -> Change high DPI settings -> Check "Override high DPI scaling behavior. Scaling performed by:" -> change drop down to "Application". Then relaunch Live.

Thx for having taken the time and yes with this method I finally made it work in Ableton too...
At the beginning it was hard to translate this to my german windows version...

[rageix]

Hate to bump and old thread but I've just been notified by Ableton Support that this issue is now finally fixed in one of the latest beta versions. I have not tried it yet however.

[jonljacobi]

Completely legit bump. I'd call it closure.