KVR Audio

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm

Yup, many EULA's just like many employment contracts and many contracts for work (like NDA's) contain things which would probably not hold up in court...but they scare most people off from challenging them as hey look legal!

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:20 pm

SLiC wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm Yup, many EULA's just like many employment contracts and many contracts for work (like NDA's) contain things which would probably not hold up in court...but they scare most people off from challenging them as hey look legal!

I've sometimes just crossed out unfavorable terms, signed, and returned. I wonder in some cases if anyone actually read the returned contract. I get the feeling that they just looked for my sig and put it in the file assuming that everything was kosher.

gnu23 · Post by **gnu23** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:18 pm

vurt wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:28 pm it's the end of the world as we know it!!!!

and I feel fine

rafa1981 · Post by **rafa1981** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:14 pm

It is not free. It is in Exchange of me registering personal data into their system and getting periodic promotional emails from them. I passed even though I have none of the plugins offered.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:37 pm

rafa1981 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:14 pm It is not free. It is in Exchange of me registering personal data into their system and getting periodic promotional emails from them. I passed even though I have none of the plugins offered.

I think that this is undervalued here. The entire point of giving away free stuff is to "promote" the company giving away the free stuff. Here it might be nothing more than getting us all to talk about it so that other people say "ooh, give me the free stuff" and then dirk and friends may get new customers. Preferably, they're getting young new cost sensitive customers who will get excited about "having access to professional software for only a few dollars a month."

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:40 pm

it's a brave new world grandpops, get on or get out of the way!!!

Synth Master Jedi · Post by **Synth Master Jedi** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:57 pm

Dirk Diggler wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:40 pm I find it entertaining to see so many folks having problems with FREE software.

Before you poo poo this FREE offering, try them out and just remove what doesn't work for you.

I hate the subscription model as well, but that's not what this is all about.

I already owned most of the PA plugins that they're giving out in this package, and there are some pretty good plugins in that package. I bought them a long time ago and have no regrets.

There are way too many whiners on this forum. I'd be surprised if many of them get any actual music done at all.

They would never make it in a pro environment.

dionenoid · Post by **dionenoid** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:01 pm

fese wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:45 pm Actually, that is not really true. The question of “ownership” vs “license to use” of digital goods is not finally resolved, and probably differs between countries.
A lot of the terms in the EULAs are not as clear as the vendors like them to be and some could probably challenged in court, if someone had the money. This is what happened in the famous Usedsoft vs Oracle case, which led to the ruling of the European court of justice that the sale of a software, even a digital download, is a transfer of ownership and thus could also be resold.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_goods

That's right, ownership of software is been challenged by the EU court. The EU is currently also discussing liability and expected lifespan of software products, which is a good thing for us customers. Unfortunately it's not (yet) international law tho, and even within the EU there are differing laws and rules.

Fact of the matter is that buying software just isn't the same as buying a car or a television. We can all hope that this will soon change, but i'm afraid it will take many years before all countries in the world hold to the same standards. Often they simply follow an EULA (which technically isn't even a binding legal contract, but that's another story) or follow local law which often doesn't even have a definition of what software is.

dionenoid · Post by **dionenoid** » Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:10 pm

SLiC wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm Yup, many EULA's just like many employment contracts and many contracts for work (like NDA's) contain things which would probably not hold up in court...but they scare most people off from challenging them as hey look legal!

Years ago there was a company who put in their EULA something along the lines of "by installing this software you agree to sell us your soul". Needless to say it didn't hold up in court

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:57 am

The Disney vs Redbox case sheds some light but I can't keep up with all the battles. Is jailbreaking an iPod still illegal? Software is such an odd legal ground.

And there was actually an EULA that gave away like $5k if anybody read it and sent a letter to the developer. Nobody did for like 5 or 10 years!

dune_rave · Post by **dune_rave** » Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:07 am

NI gives ethereal earth....dunno, im not the target audience. I don't like this instrument.
if they gave Maverick piano for free that would be a huge giveaway! i think the same bout the other companies. If you give light versions, that's just like giving shareware...

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:54 am

dionenoid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:10 pm
SLiC wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm Yup, many EULA's just like many employment contracts and many contracts for work (like NDA's) contain things which would probably not hold up in court...but they scare most people off from challenging them as hey look legal!
Years ago there was a company who put in their EULA something along the lines of "by installing this software you agree to sell us your soul". Needless to say it didn't hold up in court

no earthly court anyway

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:06 am

dionenoid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:10 pm
SLiC wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm Yup, many EULA's just like many employment contracts and many contracts for work (like NDA's) contain things which would probably not hold up in court...but they scare most people off from challenging them as hey look legal!
Years ago there was a company who put in their EULA something along the lines of "by installing this software you agree to sell us your soul". Needless to say it didn't hold up in court

So, Satan has taken over the word via EULA's....actually explains a lot.

nightjar · Post by **nightjar** » Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:30 am

SLiC wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:06 am
dionenoid wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:10 pm
SLiC wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 pm Yup, many EULA's just like many employment contracts and many contracts for work (like NDA's) contain things which would probably not hold up in court...but they scare most people off from challenging them as hey look legal!
Years ago there was a company who put in their EULA something along the lines of "by installing this software you agree to sell us your soul". Needless to say it didn't hold up in court
So, Satan has taken over the word via EULA's....actually explains a lot.

And just before Easter... coincidence???? Hmmmmm.....

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:09 pm

0degree wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:38 pmI never implied you own a source code but you still own a license which represents the actual product. You buy a product and you should be able to resell it

No, you need to think of it more like the lease you sign when you move into an apartment or house. The lease sets out your rights and the landlord's rights and you agree to those things. So if the lease says you can't have pets, you can't have pets. Similarly, if the license says you can't resell it, then you can't resell it. You agree to abide by the terms of the license so you have to abide by that agreement. So if you care about shit like that (I don't, not even a little bit), it behoves you to know what you're agreeing to before you pay (trial/demo versions usually have the EULA). It's not hard.

arkmabat wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:42 pmYeah but why is it free? Bigger picture.

It's free because giving shit away for free is good marketing. Years from now you'll load up bx_oberhausen and recall fondly that those lovey people from Soundwide gave you this plugin. At least that's what they hope.

CapnLockheed wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:46 pmGolly gee! Now I'm all confused. Can you explain to my old ignorant boomer ass what the difference
is between software and Non-Fungible Tokens and why I can sell one but not the other? After all, NEITHER are physical products...both are just 1's & 0's right? Please enlighten me oh wise one.

Read the license you agree to, everything will become clear. With an NFT, you are relying on the vendor to stick to their side of the bargain and not create 100,000 identical NFT's to yours, with a software license the onus is more on the customer to do the right thing.
It's like the fact I can buy a Toyota Prius hybrid outright, and sell it to whomever I like at any time, but I can only lease a Toyota Mirai FCEV and I will eventually have to give it back to Toyota, I am not free to sell it to someone else when I get bored of it or keep it after the lease I have signed expires (unless I sign a new lease). If I want a Mirai, that's the deal. If I'm not happy with that arrangement, I don't buy a Mirai.

On another motoring related note - even though you pay for it and it's yours, you can't sell your driver's license, can you? It's something we all know and accept. If you don't know it's the same for software, it's because you've been too dumb and/or lazy to ever read any of the EULAs you greedily agree to when installing software.

NI is now part of Soundwide with plugin alliance etc! Lots of free stuff...