DP 11 is out

[fmr]

still haven't updated from 10. how's everyone getting on with 11 after some time?

I had problems with the GUI refresh of several plug-ins (namely Kontakt, which basically frozen after hitting Play), I reported, I received a confirmation they were working with NI to solve that, and I am still waiting for an update to solve that.

This is in Windows 10

[machinesworking]

still haven't updated from 10. how's everyone getting on with 11 after some time?

It's pretty good, I have the ridiculous crash on quit bug, where you save and quit DP then you get a pop up saying DP crashed. It doesn't do anything dangerous it's just annoying.

As far as new features I'm sold, love the MPE implementation, love articulation maps etc.

[vyrtuoso]

I just upgraded to DP11 from DP10. Been a long time DP user since 2.7 back in 2000, Opcode Vision DSP was our preferred environment. When Gibson killed Opcode, I spent hours at Guitar Center to get a feel for Cubase and Emagic Logic Audio Platinum and Digital Performer. DP 2.7 came closest to operating like Vision so I got that. Back then, few natively operating virtual instruments existed and one instance of a high quality high performing VI demanded heavy CPU use. But even so, it was typical to integrate MIDI hardware into the studio environment so it was common among MIDI sequencers to provide MIDI tracks on which MIDI data would be recorded and played back, and the output of those MIDI tracks would be routed to the specific MIDi channel on a physical MIDI port to which a particular hardware MIDI device was connected because it was the desired output destination for receiving the MIDI messages from that MIDI track. If anything can be said about DP, it is the DAW that has remained consistent with this straightforward, traditional studio environment application. Anyone who has worked with hardware sequencers would find DP's, and in the past all MIDI sequencers', operation to be the most intuitive and economical. Instantiate a multi-channel VI as though you were integrating MID hardware into your environment. Create multiple MIDI tracks whose output each would be routed to a corresponding input of the VI that is assigned to a specific MIDI channel, just as one would assign a MIDI track's output to a MIDI port's MIDI channel that addresses a device connected to that MIDi port.

My first experience with the modern way of instrument tracks operation was when Apple acquired Logic Audio from Emagic and featured instrument tracks onto which MIDI data would be recorded and played back directly. At first I thought this was an efficient way of operating, but every time I had to create add'l instances of instruments for each new MIDI part, it quickly became apparent that this operating method was going to be a CPU hog and it was. An 8 instrument track Logic project used more CPU than an equivalent DP project that had 8 MIDI tracks outputting to one instance of a 16-channel VI.

I get that since then, times have changed and the modern way of intuiting DAW operation has changed with it. Fine. But having a professional mindset would propel me to keep an open mind and just know how something I need to work with because it's what I'm presented with actually works. And I'll happily crack open the manual to ensure that I can use it to produce intended results rather than insisting that because it doesn't work the way I would prefer it works then I can't produce the results with it. I've enjoyed using Logic Pro. But DP is my preferred environment because it behaves exactly the way sequencers were traditionally designed to behave and then some. I still think that my favorite DP features are the Chunks with V-Racks that makes project management so efficient, and the search facility that lets you search for virtually any event in the project.

[jonljacobi]

https://www.macworld.com/article/615329 ... eview.html

[zvenx]

I had no idea macworld still exists!! Wow.
I use to read it in the 90s...
rsp

[aMUSEd]

Good review

[machinesworking]

My first experience with the modern way of instrument tracks operation was when Apple acquired Logic Audio from Emagic and featured instrument tracks onto which MIDI data would be recorded and played back directly. At first I thought this was an efficient way of operating, but every time I had to create add'l instances of instruments for each new MIDI part, it quickly became apparent that this operating method was going to be a CPU hog and it was. An 8 instrument track Logic project used more CPU than an equivalent DP project that had 8 MIDI tracks outputting to one instance of a 16-channel VI.

Great breakdown, this part is a little off though, Logic used simple MIDI tracks back in the day to use a multi like Kontakt, but you had to use the Environment and cable the MIDI track to the Kontakt Multi, wasn't that great but it didn't use any more CPU than DP doing that. Now what Logic does is create what amounts to aux/MIDI tracks that look and act like duplicate instrument tracks for each extra instrument in a Kontakt multi.
It's a more efficient approach than DP at this point, although if you don't know what's going on it's not very clear, it literally looks like 8-16 instances of Kontakt, which is a huge WTF? moment in Apples supposed UX paradigm.

Hopefully (as another long term DP user) the statement a guy I helped fix his orchestral template talked about was correct, in saying he'd seen a beta recently of DP with single instrument and MIDI tracks. I think with the time etc. that MOTU have held off on implementing this, they could do it in a way that pleased the die hard DP crowd and those of us who think it's the only thing in DP that can be cumbersome.

[vyrtuoso]

Yes I've done that very Environment cabling with stand-alone multi-channel instruments myself back in the day because that was the only way to do it. To the extent it was intuitive, it was because I knew how to use the Logic environment from previous experience and knew to treat the VI like it was external MIDI hardware. My simple point was that using multiple instantiations of VI's for every MIDI part being the newer method that was presented in Apple's Logic was efficient from the perspective of user operation, but experienced engineers would know that it was a resource hog. One would need to be aware of multi-channel VIs and using them as such. I'm not married to DP's way of doing things for its own sake. It's just that's how DP does it and until they do otherwise I do as DP makes me.

[machinesworking]

Yes I've done that very Environment cabling with stand-alone multi-channel instruments myself back in the day because that was the only way to do it. To the extent it was intuitive, it was because I knew how to use the Logic environment from previous experience and knew to treat the VI like it was external MIDI hardware. My simple point was that using multiple instantiations of VI's for every MIDI part being the newer method that was presented in Apple's Logic was efficient from the perspective of user operation, but experienced engineers would know that it was a resource hog. One would need to be aware of multi-channel VIs and using them as such. I'm not married to DP's way of doing things for its own sake. It's just that's how DP does it and until they do otherwise I do as DP makes me.

I agree, it's not a deal breaker in DP to me at all, it can be a bit annoying when I'm working in single use VI's or multis with aux and MIDI tracks, but it's not terrible. It's a pretty simple thing to do, and at least it's very clear what's going on.

On Logic, again, that's the confusing part of the way Logic handles multi instruments these days, those seeming multiple instances of the plug in are just aux tracks and MIDI channels, the fact they have a slot with Kontakt seemingly instantiated is a ruse, it's a ghost reference to the main Kontakt plug in you made the channels for. It doesn't use any more CPU than say 8 aux's and MIDI channels assigned to a multi of Kontakt in DP11. That's why I was saying it's a UX disaster, it's not intuitive and they really need to do a better job of differentiating the tracks in Logic.

[machinesworking]

DP 11.1 has just come out! MOTU finally add in MIDI to instrument tracks, so the last big complaint about DP is gone gone gone!

I've loyally stuck by DP these last couple years because I love the search, Chunks, V-Racks etc. etc. but I really was hoping they eventually did this, it was still more fun to work with Live or Bitwig on smaller track count projects so this is great news!

Improvements to Articulation maps and ons of bug fixes as well.

[vyrtuoso]

The 11.1 update is some good stuff. Liking the QS enhancements and loving the multi-channel MIDI tracks. Excited to try the non-destructive quantization and transposition and the dynamically resizable channel strips is going to help a ton on my small lap top screen.

[Favedavebleeeee]

In the end - NOPE. To me it just LOOKS like one of those "whats wrong with..." DAWs, that are perfectly fine and perhaps even unique in terms of features like Mixcraft or ACiD, but are stuck in the 90s design language... I just can'g get past the janky GUI.

Phewww...

Just like Cubase.

[Trensharo]

In the end - NOPE. To me it just LOOKS like one of those "whats wrong with..." DAWs, that are perfectly fine and perhaps even unique in terms of features like Mixcraft or ACiD, but are stuck in the 90s design language... I just can'g get past the janky GUI.

Phewww...

Just like Cubase.

Hard disagree, but okay.

I did like the way DP manages things in Tabs, though...

Except the Inspector. For some reason, that felt a bit sloppy to me. But the Tracks, Mixer, QuickScribe, Clip Launcher, etc. I like how it put those into Tabs, and how you could stack different views on top of each other. It was a bit more flexible than Cubase.

But overall usability is definitely 1990s Keyboard Maven design ethos.