MAAT FidEf JeNTwO

[Tj Shredder]

I didn’t know that in the US ideas are patentable… There isn’t even the slightest proof that the claimed effect even exists… And on top its trivial and must not get a patent.
But maybe its a psychological research project to find out how easy it is to fool people… The whole patent text is obviously 100% bullshit hidden behind a lot of words… The patent lawyer obviously was too lazy to even read it… (me too…; - )
Or they pull out a real world use case just to sue Kia for infringement…

[wheever]

Here's the thing, though, bullshit marketing psychobabble aside, it really does do *something* good on certain material. (Mostly loud rock. On quiet stuff the noise is really apparent and annoying.)

I can identify it 100% of the time in blind tests, (Hofa Blindtest) because the aux it's on sounds *better*. Not only that, but I can also see that it does visually by looking at an analyzer and switching back and forth.

In the null test, yeah, I can hear what it's doing and, yeah, it's basically colored modulated noise. (BTW, you get the best null by dropping one track by -.078db. I dunno why.)

I think it also does something like the old Aphex exciter trick at the top end, but it like rolls off some highs first, then replaces it, because things like hats will sound brighter, without sounding harsher, and nothing like jacking a shelf would. And you SEE this on an analyzer, the highest highs jump by like 3db. Other stuff goes on but it's harder to quantify.

Is it worth $99? Nah. If it were $25 I would have gotten it already. YMMV.

[Agreed]

I don't even have anything at all against using little noise sources of different kinds, it's worked for me alongside very slow, low-depth, subtle wow/flutter type modulations when recording tracks or through a group to give a consistent... something, to sounds that started as pure synthesis or whatever. I am not skeptical of the possible utility of something like that, I just really enjoy the marketing and that they specifically say that it might not work if the listener "resists its charms," that's really funny to me for some reason

[bmanic]

I found a free version

https://lkjbdsp.wordpress.com/refine/

Well I have to thank MAAT for creating FiDEF because it resulted in this thread which resulted in this post above!

LKJB dsp Refine is a hidden gem! Wow! This plugin sounds awesome!

It's especially nice on various sends and parallel busses where I have my usual "make things thick and interesting" plugins (usually a bunch of compressors and saturation plugins in series).

Very nice! Thanks for this.

[wheever]

What's annoying is that the magic marketing hype bullshit takes away from the fact that this plug REALLY does something special. (And it's too expensive because MAAT.)

It's really program dependent, but when it works, it really works, and it's not subtle.

I just blew my own damned mind by putting it on one of the commercial tracks I use as reference, and almost had the experience the hype bullshit said I would.

The track was much more "alive" sounding, with little details I couldn't hear before coming out clearly--Like the oddities of the singer's enunciation. (And this is a track I know REALLY well.)

And it made me go "huh. Maybe since I'm listening so hard to the effect it has on my own track, which I'm in the process of mixing, I'm not hearing the notional psycho-acoustic effects." (in effect "Resisting its charms.")

I'm so deeply cynical about crap like this, but this experience made me stop dead in my tracks.

But I think, functionally and structurally, in order for it to be fully effective, you have to have all your mixing and mastering finished, only adding it at the end. (ie: before the final limiter, after everything's ready to go.)

[fairlyclose]

Read the patent and they have done some imaging studies (MEG) That is less useful than a good double blind test of listeners. But as people here are attesting there is a positive effect. Is the effect size as great as with other products eg the airwindows. That requires (proper) testing, which does not seem to have been done yet and probably never will be.

[pixel85]

"Unfortunately, your conscious higher level brain function will suppress your unconscious brain, and FiDef acts subconsciously. Result? If you try too hard to hear it, you probably won’t!
Though this is in direct opposition to the “impostor syndrome” you’ve worked so hard to overcome, there will be no noticeable effect if you “listen hard.” That is; analytically. "

And yet, plenty of people are saying that they hear it, after analytical listening. People can hear details like "the singer's enunciation and (minor) lip noise", which is a result of deep analytical listening. Opposite to casual listening where it is supposed to really work.

Anyway, this kind of 'casual analytical testing' proves nothing besides that people can hear the difference. It's not proving that majority of casual listeners will perceive that difference as an improvement.

I'm trying this on a techno track while playing video games, where I can 'disable' a bit of analytical listening. Indeed, most of the time I'm choosing track with fidef as the preferred one but the difference is really marginal.
I'll try with commercial tracks like someone on GS recommended.

[evo2slo]

I compared the Fidef demo with the Voxengo CRTIV and noticed that the Fidef seemed to have more depth to it. I made an IR of the Fidef with a digital spike and noticed that all but one of the presets have a 13ms predelay before the mid to high frequencies of the gated noise. I think the predelay is an essential part of the psychoacoustic decorrelation. I put the CRTIV on an fx bus and delayed it by 13ms and found that the effect was much closer to the Fidef. I then put a stereo widener after the 13ms delay and got extremely similar results to the Fidef.

The nice thing about this method is the CRTIV is much more flexible than Fidef as far as frequency balance, envelope, and noise bands. Plus it's easy to crank it to really hear what it's doing, or drop it down even more subtle than the Fidef. Also, on an fx bus one can send different tracks at various levels to the effect. I'm really liking what it's doing. So there you go, an improved version of Fidef at about half the price. Just be sure to completely turn off the dry mix on the CRTIV, and follow it with a microshift delay at about 13ms (I'm using PSP MixSync2) and a stereo widener (I'm using PSP StereoEnhancer).

[Michey]

hehe, found this :

[Michey]

I found a free version

https://lkjbdsp.wordpress.com/refine/

Well I have to thank MAAT for creating FiDEF because it resulted in this thread which resulted in this post above!

LKJB dsp Refine is a hidden gem! Wow! This plugin sounds awesome!

It's especially nice on various sends and parallel busses where I have my usual "make things thick and interesting" plugins (usually a bunch of compressors and saturation plugins in series).

Very nice! Thanks for this.

Kinda lights in a thick beacon light the tragedy which is the current state of the industry : each and every one of us has HOUDREDS of tools (a lot of them are free) that can/will replace a same piece of commercial/other free software with a more "hyped" flavor. and we just don't know that it's there... (because, having one beautiful girl by your side... and its one thing. having TONS of 'em... and you become the Dan Bilzerian of your music making machine...)

I had this for YEARS, sometimes used it as a "betterizer" (mostly just haven't used it at all) and so now I have a new free tool : a free psycho-acoustic extractor/revealer. good for me

[Foliasound]

Well, not strictly a Snake Oil vid, but I gave it a shot...

[martinjuenke]

It crashed my Bitwig and magically turned it into Reaper

[Bodhisan]

Well, not strictly a Snake Oil vid, but I gave it a shot...

“Audio voodoo” - love it. Good test.

[Foliasound]

Thanks, man!

[ETS7]

It is on sale and just bought it.......
My master chain is now complete I think....
Valhalla vintageverb,gulfoss,oxford inflator and maat fidef......
No more eq or tape,tube or compressor emulators......