If I had to choose just one?

[Trancer]

Many thanks for your answers.

Many thanks to you kritikon for your complete and detailed feedback.

Indeed, the Matrixbrute is the one that is best suited to my needs, the only thing that bothers me is the low-end keyboard, really a concern for me.

If the Matrixbrute was 1500 euros, a standard this kind of keyboard, just like the Polybrute, it should be 2000 euros, 500 euros too expensive for the quality they offer.

Once again if the quality of the excellent Virus Ti2, no worries, it is very well worth the investment.

But the quality of Arturia not at all up to standard.

Really a pity that not a desktop version, it would sell like hot cakes.

Korg indeed very interesting too, but digital.

Regarding the Pro 3, I find it less interesting than the Matrixbrute, I still prefer the Rev 2.

The Quantum most certainly, but totally out of financial reach.

[Trancer]

I just discovered by chance the breathtaking Novation Summit.

Nothing to do with the Rev 2, much better for my taste.

Unfortunately no step sequencer like in the Rev 2, but there are hardware step sequencers/arpeggiators.

However, I don't know which model.

A simple, functional and efficient step sequencer / arpeggiator.

An idea for a model?

Now not a Matrixbrute or Polybrute at all, but the Summit sounds like it.

If a desktop version of the Matrixbrute or Polybrute existed, it would most likely be one of those two.

Here the Summit really has a really good sound.

[kritikon]

I'm not a sequencer nerd, hopefully others can advise. I see and hear good things about Elektron in terms of functionality, but I really would not like working with their GUIs. Can't stand them, sadly - they bring back nightmares from the bad old digital hw sequencer days of old to me. Possibly some of the more standard and easier to use sequencers with rows of knobs are in modular form - not necessarily easy to integrate if you don't have any other modular stuff.

Summit offers a lot - all digital oscillators. If that makes a difference? Seems like the VCAs, filters etc are analogue though. I have to say though that I used to be happy with old style analogues with DCOs. And it does mean you get 16 voices, which costs a fortune in analogues. Studio Electronics used to make rack synths and desktops - I don't remember them making poly analogues but they might be worth a check?

[kritikon]

I checked out Summit briefly. It has a CV input so you can control it with a sequencer but that seems to be the only external control - i.e. no sequencer control of filter or other parameters - that makes buying a sequencer questionable. You may as well control sequences via midi. It offers more envelopes and LFOs though. The looping envelopes sound very useful - have those to a degree on a Wasp and OSCars used to have them - I wish more synths had that. Looks like the Summit ones are quite advanced. Analogue distortion - check, filter drive - check, ring mod - check, sync/cross mod - check, fully featured arp - check.

Strangely, most of the vid demos I could find were incredibly dull. Just trawling through the presets and simple playing. Very little in depth tweaking - a shame, as it looks like it should be capable of real depth. Good variation of filters, 12/24 db/oct and a shitload of mod options. You should be able to get some good evolving sounds with all the LFOs, envs and mod options but no sequencer limits that somewhat. I suspect too many of the demos I saw were by players rather than synth tweakers - maybe daunted by the plethora of knobs etc? I wanted to hear the sync and filters screaming but I haven't found a demo with that yet...not a single one with ring mod in it! I just don't understand why anyone would buy a monster synth and not make weird noises with it?

[kritikon]

Just noticed the dual filter mode on Summit - same kind of thing on the OSCar. That is particularly good for vocal type sounds and unique. Check out impOSCar which extended the amount of choice on filter separation hugely. Summit does exactly that - superb! Actually seeing things like that interests me now. Summit has some unique sonic capabilities. Not sure if Peak has the same 2.0 update as Peak - if so then I might check it out, as I don't need 16 voice or 2 of them, but one 8 voice Peak might be good.

And finally a reasonable demo.

[kritikon]

Done some more research. Seemed like some features of the OSCar on the Summit - makes sense now - Chris Hugget is onboard at Novation. He designed Wasp and OSCar. Which now makes me intensely interested in Peak or Summit. Apparently Peak doesn't have things like filter separation, so it's Summit or nothing. But it cost less than the price of 2 Peaks.

It would seem it's a fair thing to say that a Novation Summit is a brand new modern polyphonic version of an OSCar, without the additive shite, but with added FM, wavetables etc and improved filter options, not only analogue filter drive but analogue everything overdrive. Buy it! Buy it now! Don't look at any other synths! I think I'll be saving up for one. I was going to get an XD next, but...OSCar was my favourite ever synth. I loved it. Bags of character, powerful, fat and versatile. If I could wish for ever re-owning one past synth it would be the OSCar.

f**k me - I can get a big modern poly OSCar...

Hey man...thanks for making me look at Summit. What a revelation!

Did I forget to mention...

[Trancer]

Thank you for your answers.

I was really decided to buy the Summit and I came across this.

Decidedly between the mediocre keyboard of the Polybrute and the Polyphony bugs and worries of the Summit, I don't know what to think anymore and if buying one of these machines in particular the Summit makes sense.

Is it so complicated for manufacturers to make complete functional finished machines, especially given the asking price. ?

Instead of making machines with poor components and bug machines.

Here is a video about the Summit.

[vurt]

longer you take to decide, the less your money will get. the way things are, since you started looking, there has already been a 5-10% price increase on some items.
this is only going to get worse.

[FapFilter]

ignorance can be bliss sometimes. Before the internet where every single weakness will be revealed, it was definetly easier and people were still happy, even if their units had some “bugs“ they'd maybe never even encounter in person.

Of course it's tough if you have to shell out a lot of money, but maybe you answered your own question that maybe a (more) affordable synth might actually be not a bad choice too

[thecontrolcentre]

How does a 6 voice desktop analog polysynth for around £400 grab you?



https://www.dreadbox-fx.com/nymphes/

I'm very happy with mine.

[zerocrossing]

ignorance can be bliss sometimes. Before the internet where every single weakness will be revealed, it was definetly easier and people were still happy, even if their units had some “bugs“ they'd maybe never even encounter in person.

Of course it's tough if you have to shell out a lot of money, but maybe you answered your own question that maybe a (more) affordable synth might actually be not a bad choice too

In the 90s, someone gave me a Korg Poly-800. I loved it. It wasn’t until the internet age that I found out that I shouldn’t have loved it. I should have hated it.

[cryophonik]

Sounds to me from reading your threads is that your mission is to find the perfect synth, but the options you're considering are all over the place and you can't seem to make a decision because you like to find a fatal flaw with everything. Personally, I find it's more liberating to accept that every option I will ever consider is going to have some cons, so I either live with them or find a way to work around them. I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a hardware synth enthusiast (except maybe a few months ago before all the inflation/supply chain issues), so pick the leading contender in your mind and go for it. Just like cars, hardware synth values drop by a good chunk as soon as you walk out of the store, but prices for used synths are pretty stable. So, buy it used, then sell it and buy something else if it doesn't float your boat.

[kritikon]

I'd certainly agree that no synth is perfect. You won't find one. And the bugs mentioned for Summit don't seem like deal-breakers to me. Anyone who had a Juno106 will tell you how the unison is pretty well unusable , it's so bad. Yet the 106 was a big seller and became a cult synth that for some inexplicable reason people still lust after today and pay silly money for. I have one...I don't understand the cult - not nowadays anyway. There's so much better available than that crap.

It does sound like they left Summit unfinished. I didn't realise Chris Hugget died- very sad, and likely means it's not going to get fixed. I checked out NZ - I can get a Summit for $4200. Didn't realise it was that kind of silly money. Not for me, and 16 voices is wasted on me. Though I loved OSCars, and this does way more - not worth that. I thought about getting a Peak but it doesn't have enough of the Summit things that make it special. If you still really want a big poly analogue I still think Summit offers the most.

But here's a thing - for the $300 more than the price of a Summit in NZ money, I can get:
Korg Prologue 8 voice
Behringer Monopoly
Behringer Deepmind 12 voice

That's 24 voices of 3 utterly different types of character. 2 of those ultra modern, one of them ultra classic.

Some of these big poly analogues just don't make sense to me. If you're Jean-Michel Jarre, then go for it. Otherwise - possibly gearlust has got the better of you. What I really want is for Novation to release a simple mono synth with most of the important features of Summit's engine/filters etc. Effectively - a BassStation that is less crap.

[vurt]

tbh, it reads like youre looking for reasons not to buy any.


which is fine and a great place to be, all that money saved then realising you don't want the synth.
you could now go on holiday or something instead?

you've got the virus, be happy with that and make some noise!!!

[kritikon]

Or...instead of a 16-voice analogue poly for silly money...get 16 1-voice analogue monos for the same silly money. Or 4 4-voice polys. Or etc etc etc...

Ultimately, the big analogue poly is the worst value of any synth in any list IMO, and maybe that's why you're finding it hard to justify any of them? That's only my opinion and everyone has a different one. I mean, I have to ask - how many fingers have you got? Ok...I suspect it's 10 amiright? So why are16 voices important? I absolutely get that Summit offers some really tasty things (that I also want), but they threw in 2 Peaks just because they could - not really because anyone needed or wanted it. Why couldn't they just make Peak better? And that applies to Korg also - Prologue 16-voice is kinda inconsequential compared to the 8-voice. I even see Deepmind 12 being a sillier version of DM6.

I'm the worst culprit for buying new toys. But at least I admit and happily buy new toys - but I can buy 2 or 3 toys for every huge toy you buy with 16 voices so I get 3 times the toy pleasure (that sounds very wrong somehow... ). Ultimately it is a 16-voice toy, not an investment. Get over that and you're set.