He makes his own.jebudas wrote:I think I can end this thread...
xoxos, what vst's do you use?
ciao,
Trent Reznor digs Ohm Force...
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- Banned
- 6127 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Et in Arcadia Ego
ciao,
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- KVRAF
- 2548 posts since 7 Jul, 2003 from Huntington, WV
Yep, there sure are.Cyprus wrote:There sure are a lot of haters in this world.
That's the ticket! Hate the haters! That'll teach them!Cyprus wrote:If there are any other factors besides the music itself that cause you to dislike or like the music, then you're a sheepish fool.
McLilith
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35476 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
thornemaelstrom quoth
If you want to know why mainstream music is so much more widely listened to, then I'll tell you: It's better produced.
Ummm, no. Its has nothing to do with the level of production at all. It has a lot to do with mass-market appeal, with promotion, with common denominators in tatse, et.c. et.c.
But production? Not even close.
Consider this choice:
Sorry, you forgot to phrase it properly.
Try 'Consider this completely self-referential and self-serving example using two extremes which completely ignores any other possibility'
A) You can hear a song that is uninspired and mass-produced, but well mixed and only 3 minutes long.
B) You can listen to a brilliant song, but the mixing will be so shoddy that you can't tell what the singer is saying and the over-boosted bass will ruin your speakers. The lyrics will be so cheesy that you will laugh, and there will be a piano sample that is so awful that you will swear that it is just a general midi piano sound. Oh, and the song will be 19 minutes long.
Now try C. A good 5-minute pop song, not cliched, enough grit to keep it interesting, with a fairly decent amount of commitment from the musicians, produced well at home by someone who asked in the right places, and learned the task well.
For the most part, underground bands have really bad mixing and recording
Nonsense.
(Not their fault, they are recording into a $500 audio card, as opposed to a $250,000 audio desk with $100,000 in Pro Tools equipment),
Bollocks.
and the lyrics are usually bad teenage poetry.
Nonsense.
But, our songs are like our children. In other words, ugly as hell, but we don't notice because they are our babies.
Maybe like your children. I know folk with absolutely beautiful kids.
And music. Try listening to the 'not produced on a 250K desk on a 100K ProTools rig' album 'AmbienCellist' by Claire Fitch, for example.
Or perhaps the sublime first album by Sings Reign Rebuilder, which was recorded on a ghettoblaster.
Believe it or not, but bad mixing isn't just a tiny little detriment to a song, it's a huge fricking deal that can really ruin a good song.
I've heard stuff recorded on a dictaphone that blew the massmarket stuff out of the f**king water. And the poor quality detracted not one iota from the song itself.
But, we either don't care, don't know how to fix it, or don't have the money to buy the equipment to fix it.
Or we do care, we find out how to, and we do it. Whether or not we have a third of a million pounds worth of overpriced boutique studio gear.
Cheesy lyrics are everywhere, I should know. I've written a good number of them myself (Fortunately I've been kind enough to only release instrumentals to the public Very Happy ).
And exceptional lyrics are everywhere too. By the way, the stuff you're talking about 'produced' on all that expensive gear... the lyrics are just as likely to be cheesy as shite.
"I should be so lucky
lucky, lucky, lucky
I should be so lucky in love
I should be so lucky
Lucky, lucky, lucky
I should be so lucky in love"
Yeah, must be the great lyrics that made that one.
Our music is produced on home computers with a few thousand dollars worth of gear added on to try to make up for all of the flaws in this system.
There are no flaws. Just your beliefe that throwing money at something somehow makes it better. But the equivalent of the equipment I own today would have cost hundreds of thousands twenty years ago. And it would have been of poorer quality back then. And harder to use.
So what is it, that 20 years ago this kind of stuff was up to producing the quality, but magically now its not? Even although its far better now, and more flexible, just because it doesnt come with tens of thousands of pounds of proprietry hardware its somehow inadequate?
We don't have the expert producers or mastering labs. We don't have a team of guys checking our audio and making sure it is nearly flawless.
And the audience doesnt particuarly care. I bet you less than 5% of the target audience for a massmarket single could hear what that mastering process does.
None of those things are our fault, but they do make our music less listenable than commercially produced stuff.
Bollocks.
It's important to remember that bad mixing doesn't sound so bad if you listen to enough of it, but the general public has no intention of sitting through enough bad mixing to adjust.
The 'general public' listens to whats on the radio or MTV. Good or bad production has f**k-all to do with that.
So there you have it, by rejecting the system because it is elitist and makes bad music, you have officially joined an elitist system that produces bad music.
So there it is, by making a few ludicrous and unjustifiable claims you have officially failed to prove anything other than the fact that you seem to confuse quality with success, and expensive equipment with talent.
If you want to know why mainstream music is so much more widely listened to, then I'll tell you: It's better produced.
Ummm, no. Its has nothing to do with the level of production at all. It has a lot to do with mass-market appeal, with promotion, with common denominators in tatse, et.c. et.c.
But production? Not even close.
Consider this choice:
Sorry, you forgot to phrase it properly.
Try 'Consider this completely self-referential and self-serving example using two extremes which completely ignores any other possibility'
A) You can hear a song that is uninspired and mass-produced, but well mixed and only 3 minutes long.
B) You can listen to a brilliant song, but the mixing will be so shoddy that you can't tell what the singer is saying and the over-boosted bass will ruin your speakers. The lyrics will be so cheesy that you will laugh, and there will be a piano sample that is so awful that you will swear that it is just a general midi piano sound. Oh, and the song will be 19 minutes long.
Now try C. A good 5-minute pop song, not cliched, enough grit to keep it interesting, with a fairly decent amount of commitment from the musicians, produced well at home by someone who asked in the right places, and learned the task well.
For the most part, underground bands have really bad mixing and recording
Nonsense.
(Not their fault, they are recording into a $500 audio card, as opposed to a $250,000 audio desk with $100,000 in Pro Tools equipment),
Bollocks.
and the lyrics are usually bad teenage poetry.
Nonsense.
But, our songs are like our children. In other words, ugly as hell, but we don't notice because they are our babies.
Maybe like your children. I know folk with absolutely beautiful kids.
And music. Try listening to the 'not produced on a 250K desk on a 100K ProTools rig' album 'AmbienCellist' by Claire Fitch, for example.
Or perhaps the sublime first album by Sings Reign Rebuilder, which was recorded on a ghettoblaster.
Believe it or not, but bad mixing isn't just a tiny little detriment to a song, it's a huge fricking deal that can really ruin a good song.
I've heard stuff recorded on a dictaphone that blew the massmarket stuff out of the f**king water. And the poor quality detracted not one iota from the song itself.
But, we either don't care, don't know how to fix it, or don't have the money to buy the equipment to fix it.
Or we do care, we find out how to, and we do it. Whether or not we have a third of a million pounds worth of overpriced boutique studio gear.
Cheesy lyrics are everywhere, I should know. I've written a good number of them myself (Fortunately I've been kind enough to only release instrumentals to the public Very Happy ).
And exceptional lyrics are everywhere too. By the way, the stuff you're talking about 'produced' on all that expensive gear... the lyrics are just as likely to be cheesy as shite.
"I should be so lucky
lucky, lucky, lucky
I should be so lucky in love
I should be so lucky
Lucky, lucky, lucky
I should be so lucky in love"
Yeah, must be the great lyrics that made that one.
Our music is produced on home computers with a few thousand dollars worth of gear added on to try to make up for all of the flaws in this system.
There are no flaws. Just your beliefe that throwing money at something somehow makes it better. But the equivalent of the equipment I own today would have cost hundreds of thousands twenty years ago. And it would have been of poorer quality back then. And harder to use.
So what is it, that 20 years ago this kind of stuff was up to producing the quality, but magically now its not? Even although its far better now, and more flexible, just because it doesnt come with tens of thousands of pounds of proprietry hardware its somehow inadequate?
We don't have the expert producers or mastering labs. We don't have a team of guys checking our audio and making sure it is nearly flawless.
And the audience doesnt particuarly care. I bet you less than 5% of the target audience for a massmarket single could hear what that mastering process does.
None of those things are our fault, but they do make our music less listenable than commercially produced stuff.
Bollocks.
It's important to remember that bad mixing doesn't sound so bad if you listen to enough of it, but the general public has no intention of sitting through enough bad mixing to adjust.
The 'general public' listens to whats on the radio or MTV. Good or bad production has f**k-all to do with that.
So there you have it, by rejecting the system because it is elitist and makes bad music, you have officially joined an elitist system that produces bad music.
So there it is, by making a few ludicrous and unjustifiable claims you have officially failed to prove anything other than the fact that you seem to confuse quality with success, and expensive equipment with talent.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- Banned
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
i ouldn't make it past the first couple sentences..you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 2086 posts since 11 Feb, 2003
I liked that primus alot!!! Sooo cool! There was a guy walking around in a latex pig mask....he was from Beaver Creek Iowa....cool as hell, walked up and gave me a beer...I was trippin my balls off! Everybody was so cool.McLilith wrote:The combination of those three would make an interesting show.mr.me wrote:I've been to alot of concerts, the best were NIN and Primus....and Roger Waters. Very halucinogenic.
McLilith
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- KVRist
- 368 posts since 3 May, 2002 from Canberra, Australia
Oi! Back off Kylie!whyterabbyt wrote:...
And exceptional lyrics are everywhere too. By the way, the stuff you're talking about 'produced' on all that expensive gear... the lyrics are just as likely to be cheesy as shite.
"I should be so lucky
lucky, lucky, lucky
I should be so lucky in love
I should be so lucky
Lucky, lucky, lucky
I should be so lucky in love"
Yeah, must be the great lyrics that made that one.
(Okay, the lyrics suck but
*sigh*)-s
(my wife keeps telling me to let it go, but I don't wanna
)A suffusion of yellow...
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- addled muppet weed
- 111300 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
smp wrote:
Oi! Back off Kylie!
(Okay, shes completely shite but would you kick her out of bed for farting?
-s
(my wife keeps telling me i have no chance)
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- KVRist
- 368 posts since 3 May, 2002 from Canberra, Australia
Oi! I didn't say thatvurt wrote:smp wrote:
Oi! Back off Kylie!
(Okay, shes completely shite but would you kick her out of bed for farting?
-s
(my wife keeps telling me i have no chance)
Wish I had though. That's much better that what I wrote
You want to write some of my songs as well? (where "songs" = "8 bar loops with one finger chords + mindless filter tweaking" - hang on a minute....
)-s
A suffusion of yellow...