KVR Audio

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:11 am

Man its so trippy that a company has all these different versions and variations of virtually the same thing using different looks and "shells" for it.

It's all marketing - how can you sell the same thing 5 times

, especially when the original tech seems to be lost over decades.

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:20 am

DJ Warmonger wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:11 am
Man its so trippy that a company has all these different versions and variations of virtually the same thing using different looks and "shells" for it.
It's all marketing - how can you sell the same thing 5 times , especially when the original tech seems to be lost over decades.

They use high class C.I.A Confussion Tactics into Luring you to buy almost the Same thing over again.
There are some differences in sound over the Old Digitals VS The New and in some things the Old sounds better and in some cases the New Flashy thing sounds better so you want both

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:22 am

Some comparisons ACB and Zen

Bandaide · Post by **Bandaide** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:38 pm

Baffling release for $2000.

If I remember correctly, an unnamed company proved you could do a Juno remake -- with analog DCOs, double the voices, an extra filter, an extra LFO, 2 extra envelopes, a sequencer, and a crap ton of quality effects -- for $800.

And Roland wants nearly triple that for a MIDI controller preloaded with their Zencore engine?

Negative, Ghostrider.

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:43 pm

Bandaide wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:38 pm Baffling release for $2000.

If I remember correctly, an unnamed company proved you could do a Juno remake -- with analog DCOs, double the voices, an extra filter, an extra LFO, 2 extra envelopes, a sequencer, and a crap ton of quality effects -- for $800.

And Roland wants nearly triple that for a MIDI controller preloaded with their Zencore engine?

Negative, Ghostrider.

Not to mention True Osc Sync and extremely flexible Unison mode too.

The look gave me the I want it Nostalgia feeling until i almost turned to a female down there when i saw the asking price.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:19 pm

They call it "True" Oscillator Sync? As in being digital, sounding like the usual crappy digital sync poor imitation of almost any analogue oscillator sync? I have yet to hear anything digital do either oscillator sync, cross mod, audio rate modulation (usually distortion too IMO) decently. Not that digital synths don't have a whole heap of other advantages but decent sounding sync is NOT one of them.

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:21 pm

kritikon wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:19 pm They call it "True" Oscillator Sync? As in being digital, sounding like the usual crappy digital sync poor imitation of almost any analogue oscillator sync? I have yet to hear anything digital do either oscillator sync, cross mod, audio rate modulation (usually distortion too IMO) decently. Not that digital synths don't have a whole heap of other advantages but decent sounding sync is NOT one of them.

I was talking about The extra features on Deepmind 12 not the Zen Synth.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:55 pm

D-Fusion wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:43 pm The look gave me the I want it Nostalgia feeling until i almost turned to a female down there when i saw the asking price.

Roland wishes to invert you.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:57 pm

Oh OK. Actually I didn't realise Deepmind had sync on it. They certainly packed the features in on that thing. Maybe Ronald can learn a thing or 2 from Behringer? TBH Ronald baffle me - they keep churning out these emulations of their own old gear, obviously knowing the demand for their analogue gear and the almost guaranteed market there is for them. Yet they steadfastly refuse to release actual analogue gear - that would likely sell better than these digital things they keep making and that they can absolutely make for similar cost/pricing....though it makes me wonder about the cost of manufacture - I'd imagine making digital gear is cheaper than analogue so their margins are better with digital? They could capture a large market if they started releasing some either analogue emus of their own and/or newly designed analogue gear - even I'd buy some of them despite knowing how crappy some of the old Junos actually are. I mean - I won't pay $4000 for a Sequential Pro3 but I'd seriously consider that cash for a proper Ronald Jupiter6 - new.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:33 pm

Better margins, lower failure rates, and nothing to calibrate. Basically built by pick and place machines.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:31 pm

Yeah, I guess. Behringer do much the same with analogue though and the must be making a profit..though their failure rates are probably much higher.

Synth Master Jedi · Post by **Synth Master Jedi** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:03 pm

When you have the Jupiter-X coming in at $2799 and you have the Jupiter-Xm coming in at $1599, I'm not surprised that the Juno-X is priced at $1999. The Jupiter-Xm seems tiny in comparison to the Juno-X.

Roland isn't Behringer and I don't think they want to be either.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon May 02, 2022 2:17 am

That just shows how overpriced all of Roland's VAs are. When you look around you can get equivalent synths for far less. At very similar price is the Udo Super6, which is a Jupiter6. For very similar price anyone would have to be nuts to go for a plain old Juno106 against a Jupiter6 - they're in different universes. There are plenty of Modal synths at way less than $2k - personally I don't like the sound of them that much, but it's not difficult to make Juno sounds on them - TBH absolutely any VA can make VA Juno sounds - the Juno is so basic that anything can emulate it. Yamaha have a few VA and ModX things that pack in way more than a Juno and cheaper. You can buy a full analogue Korg Prologue16 for hundreds less than that Juno - just no contest at all. I can make Juno sounds on a Wavestate easily - it's 1/3 of the price almost. I'd be amazed if you can't do Junos on a Modwave or anything like it - all a fraction of the price.

Anything emulating a Juno should be equivalently priced - i.e. cheap. Junos were cheap synths. Cheap in cost, cheap in sound (106 more so than all the others). The only reason 106s became cult is precisely because they were one of the few poly analogues that people could afford, it wasn't because of any stunning sound they made. JunoX has to be the most expensive in its league - it's a VAand I do not expect VAs to be top-shelf expensive. It's not just a VA though, it's a bottom shelf budget VA. Roland are hopeful that making it look like a 106 will make fools part with their money. I hope not - it does look good though. It's familiar, it's nostalgic. It still ultimately sounds as shit as a 106 (well, better in that it loses the chorus noise and adds a few things) but it's a 1 env, 1 LFO very limited bog standard VA.

buzz1 · Post by **buzz1** » Mon May 02, 2022 7:34 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:11 am
Man its so trippy that a company has all these different versions and variations of virtually the same thing using different looks and "shells" for it.
It's all marketing - how can you sell the same thing 5 times , especially when the original tech seems to be lost over decades.

Yes indeed, just ask sequential...........

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon May 02, 2022 7:39 pm

Or Moog...

Roland Juno-X