Advice wanted on new hardware

[Bennes&Bald]

Hey Guys & Gals,
I'm looking for some advice if possible...??
I currently have a setup which includes a Novation Nova Laptop (which is a bit faulty but nothing that cant be sorted), a Mininova ansd Sylenth1 and a TD-3. I (try) to write Hard Tarnce music with influences ranging from LAB4, Scot Project/Tracid Traxx, S.H.O.K.K, Yanny & Gollum etc but am looking to purchase a new Hardware Synth as I can't seem to get the kinds of sounds I'm looking for from my existing setup, aside from the TD-3 which has the Acid base covered.

My reasoning behind this is as follows:
Mininova - sounds kind of nice for preset stereotypical out the box patches, but the lack of hands on controls is a real bug bear. The editor is ok, but I loathe clicking around with a mouse to change and tweak sounds. It's mainly used as a midi keyboard for the nova with the local set to off except for maybe 2 patches which I'll use. These patches are pretty standard so I'm sure they could be replicated using a different synth, just not the nova though strangely.. (I'll probably be moving on from this soon).

Nova Laptop - 6 part multi timbrallity is really nice, and rare today, but it sounds way off for the types of leads sounds I'm looking for. I mainly use this for distorted basses, and sync skewed leads. but it's supersaw sucks. It's got a few encoders which need replacing and needs a new PSU, but it holds sentimentality value as it was the synth I bought (sold, then re-bought 20yrs later) when I was younger. I'll probably keep this, despite it sounding weak for the type of music I write, but may sell if it helps from a cash perspective towards the new synth. It does have a great ARP though.

Sylenth - rarely use it in earnest. A bit like the Mininova, I hate messing around with a mouse and find it far less intuitive to work with. It's on the PC though so not going anywhere and is useful for somethings.

So, where should I go from here? I'm not flush with money to go out and get a system8, Peak or Virus. I know the Virus is an awesome synth, but is pretty much everyone's go to and I'm looking for something a bit different personally. I don't want another VST hogging my limited PCU either.

I'm kicking around the idea of a Hydrasynth Desktop, but all the soundsets and youtbue demo's sound a bit 80's/90's, and I'm a little unsure if it can do hard sounding leads and harder soundnig hardstylesque leads.

I then looked into the Korg Modwave and Wavestate but again I have some reservations about these too. They sound amazing for soundscapes and Pads but they aren't really my bag.

I'm intrigued by the TR8S purely so I can get some more colour from my drum parts rtaher than using straight sequenced sample wav files....

So, like I said I'd really appreciate some recommendations really.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

TIA

[kritikon]

If you're looking for poly and potential for aggressive sounds, then Korg XD is a good bet for not too much cash. For even less than that Dreadbox make some poly boxes that have great filters and capable of quite aggro sounds. Those are both analogues which likely fit the bill for trancey type stuff. Other options might be Korg Modwave for digital?

[kritikon]

Actually, thinking twice about it...if it's for trancey type pads - which generally means multilayers, supersaws, way too much white noise etc you might be better off with a digital one. Roland certainly make loads of options for VAs though they seem to be often quite expensive IMO. Yamaha also make quite a few. I'd suggest things like JDXA, JupiterX - there's a thread about them here, but they aren't cheap - Uncle E mentioned picking up a JDXA 2nd hand for $700 I think - for that you get 64 digital voices of VA and samples and 4 proper analogue voices...JunoX def fits your bill but to me that's around double the price it should be for what it offers (i.e. crappy Juno emus). Korg are good value - as mentioned, Modwave, and surprisingly even Opsix can do fluid sounding pads with lots of mod options. You can actually do that with Wavestate too, but as you mentioned - that's not what it's mainly aimed at and it's not exactly intuitive.

[kritikon]

Sorry - I reread your post again - I've just finished night shift so I'm a bit befuddled. You specifically mention hard leads. Right - you're in luck because Behringer make some of their cheap soundalikes and some of them make very nasty sounds. Wasp is cheap as chips and has a particularly filthy filter. It is quite a limited synth but definitely what I'd call on the harder side of sound. Anything with sync and/or cross mod will make particularly hard leads - Behringer Cat is the one for that. It also is cheap as chips, the filters are a little less characterful than the Wasp, but it does a very good sync and can be as hard as nails for a little wee synth. K2 - it's a Korg MS20 soundalike and they don't have sync but do have ring mod and the filters are probably the hardest of any without filter drive. Insider tip - you can overdrive it if you patch the headphone out back into the input, or patch the actual output back in and use the headphone out as the main out. The highpass filter in particular can absolutely tear your ears off if you do that. All of those 3 synths are the cheaper end of Behringer and actually the most characterful IMO, and capable of hard sounds, especially K2 and Cat. If you want to consider a bit more then their MonoPoly is still affordable, does a searing sync/cross mod - actually stronger than most other synths, and has the bonus of being able to play pads because it's paraphonic (so - 4 voices potentially).

Dreadbox can be hard - not sure any of them have sync/cross mod though and some of their synths involve a bit of menu-diving. All of the Behringer ones are 1 knob per function - exactly what you specified. I'm with you - I hate dicking around with a mouse to make sounds etc. I mean, the price of their MS20 is just silly - an MS20 was always considered a superb synth for anything electronic and trancey/hard - you could even consider a smaller Korg repro MS20 - they don't break the bank either. The full ones are better but cost considerably more.

Roland make some smaller and cheaper ones - they have small JD and JX soundalikes both of which were great synths for your type of sound. Not sure about the specs for those though...and be warned they look tiny - JD08 and JX08 I think they're called?. They don't look easy to play with to me though they seem to sound pretty good. JD800 was around early 90s and were definitely used for hard style techno sounds and more. The JX range were more known for lush pads and rounded basses etc but they actually had a lovely sync on them and were capable of making noise - I used to love my old JX3p - that was used in some of the Beltram era stuff (surprisingly). JXs were not underrated, they were quite popular but I suspect nowadays they are passed over as "hard" synths. But they can be very hard. IMO a JX3p rips spots of a Juno106. Sadly I sold my JX and kept my Junos back in the day - wrong decision entirely. I was a fuckin' eejit getting rid of that. Junos are quite weak IMO.

And one last recommend - Arturia - one of the smaller Brutes. Their Steiner wotsisname filters have suitable character/grunge and some of their models have a metallizer or whatever they call it - basically a "make it harder" knob.

[cryophonik]

In a modern hardware synth for hard trance sounds, I'd say the Peak or (yes, still) the Virus are going to be some of your best options. The Virus just has so much range, which is exactly why it's still used in modern dance productions. The Peak won't get quite into the same superultrahypersaw territory that the Virus will, but it still kills it for hard leads, pads, plucks, basses, and arps and it has a very sweet analog filter and distortion/overdrive. Check out Sean Tyas' review to get an idea of its capabilities. It's a beast. If these are a little out of your price range new, then look at used ones, and consider a Virus C over a TI/TI2 - aside from the Total Integration, the differences between the C and TIs aren't extreme, in terms of sound, and the C can easily cover the styles you're after. For hard mono leads (and basses and sequences), a Moog Sub(sequent) 37 is great, but it's usually more expensive than a Peak or Virus, is mono/duophonic, and does not have any onboard effects, but it can make leads that will tear your face off right off of your skull.

If these options are outside your price range, I'd suggest at least giving the Korg Minilogue XD a look. It's not the most aggressive sounding synth I've ever owned, but it does have a digital oscillator in addition to the analog osc's, filter, etc. I've coaxed it into aggressive sounds and I've heard a few soundset demos for it that were surprisingly aggressive but seemed sorta uncharacteristic for it. It tends to sound more on the mellow, warm, and dark side IMO, but maybe that's just my own personal bias and I need to explore it a little deeper?

[PieBerger]

I make psytrance and prefer the harder side of things and my eye/ear is on the Hydrasynth. I agree that a lot of the demos are biased towards softer 80/90s sounds, but imo that's because those kinds of sounds have wider appeal, so that's what content creators will focus on, it's not necessarily because the synth isn't capable of harder sounds. The distortion sounds pretty decent in all of the videos I've watched and you can get some really gnarly tones from FM (as expected) and also the ASM PWM, which is a special kind of multipoint PWM (with FM-like DSP in the background IIRC). Check out the Mutants video in the Red Means Recording Hydrasynth series on YouTube.

It will also do decent upfront supersaws too.

Otherwise, if your budget allows for it, the Virus is probably your best choice. I'm more interested in the Hydrasynth personally, because the Explorer is cheaper new than a second hand Virus C and it has a poly aftertouch keyboard with CV outs for driving my Eurorack case.

[zerocrossing]

I'm not flush with money to go out and get a system8, Peak or Virus.

Start saving. It’s not what you want to hear, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet if you want a great sounding hardware synth. I’m surprised you’re not into the Virus, as it’s really the king of Trance. I’m considering selling my Peak, but I wouldn’t let it go for less than $1000. I’m just sort of out of room since getting a Waldorf M and it’s the one synth that I probably use the least, even though I like it a lot.

[zerocrossing]

The Peak won't get quite into the same superultrahypersaw territory that the Virus will, but it still kills it for hard leads, pads, plucks, basses, and arps and it has a very sweet analog filter and distortion/overdrive.

When I first got my Peak, I was a bit disappointed with it. I was trying to get the kind of dreamy ambient pads that I really love out of a wavetable synth, and not quite hearing what I wanted to. Then I stopped forcing it and began to sort of let it lead me, and I found that it’s amazing for the types of sounds you mention. It really cuts through a mix like nothing else. They also seem to be great about updating and adding stuff. I hope they introduce envelope curves at one point.