Zenology Pro vs Fantom-0....your thoughts?

[JanHammer91]

Had I'd known that the Zenology software existed, I probably would not have purchased the new Fantom keyboard.
I am returning my Fantom 06 tomorrow(as the sequencer is retarded...having no linear track view.) So...I've been investigating the Zenology Pro and I downloaded the Zenology Lite & have enjoyed tinkering with the sounds(though it is very limited in the free version.)
Has anyone purchased the Pro version & if so...how does it stack up to what's inside the Fantom-0 keyboard?
If it's every bit as good as the Fantom-0 for $225....then it seems that Roland is shooting themselves in the foot in terms of Fantom sales, with their software version of it.
In any event, Roland & Yamaha aren't even trying to be relevant in this market with their hardware workstations(except for Korg)....so whatever the Zenology offers, it's still a much better option than Roland's hardware(even the new Juno-X is just VST's in a box) and Roland wants $2,000 for that sh*t-box??

[Synth Master Jedi]

I'm on Roland Cloud.

From what I understand, Zenology is the same across the range.

It doesn't matter if somebody is using Zenology on Roland cloud, or if somebody is using a Zenology patch on their brand new $2000 Roland Juno-X. The patches are interchangeable, if I'm not mistaken.

So if it's just the sound you're after, and you don't care for the hardware you bought, then sure, dump it and use the Cloud.

Having said that, the Juno-X still interests me, even though I already have a crapload of Zenology sounds in Roland Cloud. I just like how it looks. If I get one, it could be my main midi controller. The sound aspect of it isn't a priority for me.

[JanHammer91]

I'm on Roland Cloud.

From what I understand, Zenology is the same across the range.

It doesn't matter if somebody is using Zenology on Roland cloud, or if somebody is using a Zenology patch on their brand new $2000 Roland Juno-X. The patches are interchangeable, if I'm not mistaken.

So if it's just the sound you're after, and you don't care for the hardware you bought, then sure, dump it and use the Cloud.

Having said that, the Juno-X still interests me, even though I already have a crapload of Zenology sounds in Roland Cloud. I just like how it looks. If I get one, it could be my main midi controller. The sound aspect of it isn't a priority for me.

Though I understand your love for the aesthetic quality of hardware(it's still overpriced...especially when you consider that the Fantom 06 offers a lot more for $500 less.) I am not intimately familiar with the Jun0-X, but it seems that the only advantages over the Fantom, is the Juno-X's aluminum chassis & the modelled Juno software that comes with it.

[Synth Master Jedi]

I'm on Roland Cloud.

From what I understand, Zenology is the same across the range.

It doesn't matter if somebody is using Zenology on Roland cloud, or if somebody is using a Zenology patch on their brand new $2000 Roland Juno-X. The patches are interchangeable, if I'm not mistaken.

So if it's just the sound you're after, and you don't care for the hardware you bought, then sure, dump it and use the Cloud.

Having said that, the Juno-X still interests me, even though I already have a crapload of Zenology sounds in Roland Cloud. I just like how it looks. If I get one, it could be my main midi controller. The sound aspect of it isn't a priority for me.

Though I understand your love for the aesthetic quality of hardware(it's still overpriced...especially when you consider that the Fantom 06 offers a lot more for $500 less.) I am not intimately familiar with the Jun0-X, but it seems that the only advantages over the Fantom, is the Juno-X's aluminum chassis & the modelled Juno software that comes with it.

Oh, for sure. Im not trying to sell anybody on the Juno X.

I can tell you that my opinion is 100% biased and based purely on the fact that I used to own a few Juno 106s ages ago and I thought that it might be nice to have the 2022 version of it, to use mainly as a midi controller.

My thoughts were not based on getting the most for my money, its based on emotions I would suppose.

But back to the topic of zenology and the cloud, I think that if you use it for a bit, youll be able to see if you like it or not. Some people are unhappy with it for various reasons, which you can read about in the roland cloud thread.

It has some issues to work out still, such as a product manager app which is kind of wonky, but I remain on Roland Cloud because I like the sounds.

[johnwoo]

Zenology Pro offers you all the good (and bad) sounds from the last 30 years of Roland . Expansions are welcomed (you have to pay for those) . The fact that you can create your own sound is a plus .
In my opinion , no Fantom is need it ....
Last keyboard I get was an Korg M3 ...

Thanks for the fast evolution of computers and virtual instruments ...

[Synth Master Jedi]

Zenology Pro offers you all the good (and bad) sounds from the last 30 years of Roland . Expansions are welcomed (you have to pay for those) . The fact that you can create your own sound is a plus .
In my opinion , no Fantom is need it ....
Last keyboard I get was an Korg M3 ...

Thanks for the fast evolution of computers and virtual instruments ...

Are you talking about buying Zenology Pro outright, since you mentioned that the expansions are extra?

If somebody subscribes to the pro level or higher, then all expansion models are included.

Not everybody is a fan of subs of course, so I guess it's good that both options exist, and people can choose what suits them the best.

[OllieBoi]

I too was confused as to whether the Roland Cloud Zenology Pro software is the same synth engine that is in all of Roland's "Zen-core" hardware instruments. I believe that is to be the case. For instance, you can buy patch sets through Roland Cloud that work in both the Zenology Pro plugin and in most Zen-core hardware.

Regarding the Zenology Pro sample library expansions, you can get these for pretty cheap. I think they are only $20 per sample/patch set. Compare this to the standalone SRX libraries (that are not compatible with Zenology Pro) which are $69 each. I think the World instruments Zenology expansion, for instance, is mostly the same as the SRX World expansion.

[Synth Master Jedi]

I too was confused as to whether the Roland Cloud Zenology Pro software is the same synth engine that is in all of Roland's "Zen-core" hardware instruments. I believe that is to be the case. For instance, you can buy patch sets through Roland Cloud that work in both the Zenology Pro plugin and in most Zen-core hardware.

Regarding the Zenology Pro sample library expansions, you can get these for pretty cheap. I think they are only $20 per sample/patch set. Compare this to the standalone SRX libraries (that are not compatible with Zenology Pro) which are $69 each. I think the World instruments Zenology expansion, for instance, is mostly the same as the SRX World expansion.

I was referring to the model expansions for the Zenology, which are $149 a piece I believe, like the Juno-106 expansion or the JX-8P expansion or the JD-800 expansion.

I thought that's what the previous poster was referring to, but I could be mistaken of course.

[JanHammer91]

I am definitely not down with the subscription(as I am not paying any company rent for the rest of my life.) I don't see any reason why the sound engine would be any different...but in the Fantom, you get 3,500 presets(including a smattering of Supernatural sounds)...so I'm really curious as to what exactly is included in the Pro price, preset-wise.
I really like the super-intuitive GUI of Zenology and with all of the available sound libraries( it seems to be a great alternative to Native Instruments)...especially since it's truly plug & play....as you just download it & your good to go(as it installs itself)...really cool stuff!

[OllieBoi]

I am definitely not down with the subscription(as I am not paying any company rent for the rest of my life.) I don't see any reason why the sound engine would be any different...but in the Fantom, you get 3,500 presets(including a smattering of Supernatural sounds)...so I'm really curious as to what exactly is included in the Pro price, preset-wise.
I really like the super-intuitive GUI of Zenology and with all of the available sound libraries( it seems to be a great alternative to Native Instruments)...especially since it's truly plug & play....as you just download it & your good to go(as it installs itself)...really cool stuff!

Even if you are not on a subscription plan, Roland Cloud must still connect to its authentication server once a month (or so I have been told). That may or may not be an issue for you.

If you are interested in getting the Zenology model expansions for the Jupiter 8, Juno 106, SH-101, etc. I would STRONGLY suggest you get the "Legendary" / ACB versions instead. They sound much, much better than the Zenology emulations. Each expansion costs the same ($149) so it's sort of a no brainer to get the better sounding versions (that also have additional features like velocity sensitivity, more effects per patch, etc.).

[JanHammer91]

I am definitely not down with the subscription(as I am not paying any company rent for the rest of my life.) I don't see any reason why the sound engine would be any different...but in the Fantom, you get 3,500 presets(including a smattering of Supernatural sounds)...so I'm really curious as to what exactly is included in the Pro price, preset-wise.
I really like the super-intuitive GUI of Zenology and with all of the available sound libraries( it seems to be a great alternative to Native Instruments)...especially since it's truly plug & play....as you just download it & your good to go(as it installs itself)...really cool stuff!

Even if you are not on a subscription plan, Roland Cloud must still connect to its authentication server once a month (or so I have been told). That may or may not be an issue for you.

If you are interested in getting the Zenology model expansions for the Jupiter 8, Juno 106, SH-101, etc. I would STRONGLY suggest you get the "Legendary" / ACB versions instead. They sound much, much better than the Zenology emulations. Each expansion costs the same ($149) so it's sort of a no brainer to get the better sounding versions (that also have additional features like velocity sensitivity, more effects per patch, etc.).

Thanks....but right now....my focus is on just getting the Pro version. So as for model-expansions, I would rather buy lower cost emulations from other developers(TAL, leaps to mind)...as their "Juno-106' emulation called TAL-U-NO-LX, is supposed to be pretty accurate. TAL also has a Jupiter-8 emulation as well.

[gentleclockdivider]

Tal uno lx is a juno 6 emu , not a 106

[JanHammer91]

Tal uno lx is a juno 6 emu , not a 106

Thanks for the correction(I'm still playing catch-up with Roland's history)...never had a Roland product until recently.

[D-Fusion]

Tal uno lx is a juno 6 emu , not a 106

Tal Uno LX is not a Juno 6 or 106 Emu it is a Juno 60 Emulation
Zenology Pro Is the same as the Zen Core in the Fantom 06 except for that Zen Pro only has 1 Insert Effect and no Reverbs so you have to rely on your daws effects.

There is also a option to buy 4 Model Expansions for Zenology Pro + Zenology Pro as a bundle for $499.
https://www.rolandcloud.com/news/zenolo ... undle-sale

[anotherscott]

Has anyone purchased the Pro version & if so...how does it stack up to what's inside the Fantom-0 keyboard?
If it's every bit as good as the Fantom-0 for $225...

I can't fully answer because I don't have zenology.

But of course, the Fantom-0 gives you a 16-zone keyboard controller with a whole bunch of sliders, knobs, and pads, and an integrated touchscreen interface.

Sonically, I think the only Fantom-0 sounds not available on Zenology are the SuperNATURAL Acoustic sounds and the tonewheel organ emulation. The SN sounds are pianos, EPs, and the ones in the graphic below:


But also, I'm not sure Zenology gives you the ability to play 16 of the sounds at a time (each with their own effects, +master fx), or 8 sounds at a time with seamless transitions, or the ability to address all these different possible sound combinations via MIDI Program Change. So live performance, at least. would seem to favor the hardware. Hardware also gives you lowest latency, maximum stability, and no configuration complications.

I am not intimately familiar with the Jun0-X, but it seems that the only advantages over the Fantom, is the Juno-X's aluminum chassis & the modelled Juno software that comes with it.

also aftertouch, internal power supply, speakers, bluetooth, XLR connections, and for some people, aesthetics and ergonomics/workflow. (But you lose a bunch of stuff, too.)