Please suggest me a 76 or 88 keys master keyboard with weighted keys supporting both aftertouch and *release velocity*.
I searched extensively but could not find one. I am looking for a controller, not a synth or digital piano.
Restoring my 30 years old Akai mx1000 is not worth it.
But it seems that nowadays almost no manufacturer is supporting RV anymore.
Even a discontinued model if not too old would be ok for me.
Any suggestion ? Thx
Wanted: master keyboard with release velocity
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- KVRist
- 115 posts since 7 Jun, 2018
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- KVRAF
- 7123 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
Look at Kawai VPC controller maybe.
http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/
I think my Kawai MP7SE has it too, so gather that controller would.
I checked and note off with velocity is in the piano.
Midi implementation chart is easiest to check in manual for VPC, I think.
http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/
I think my Kawai MP7SE has it too, so gather that controller would.
I checked and note off with velocity is in the piano.
Midi implementation chart is easiest to check in manual for VPC, I think.
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- KVRAF
- 24464 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Most Kurzweils send release velocity, no problem. A decent number of Korg boards, as well.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 7 Jun, 2018
Kawai are targeted at piano... if I were just to sound piano that could be a choice, while I was searching for a multi purpose master controller with decently weighted keys but also some controls (pb, mw, some sliders and buttons) suitable for piano but also for synths... the Arturia keylab 88 for example was perfect but it misses RV. The akai mpk88 could be a good choice aswell but it also misses RV 
The only suitable Kurzweil was the km88 but it is pretty like the kawai, has pretty no control and a joystick (I want my pb+mw lol) and seems mostly targeted for piano only...
The only one I could find is the CME zkey 88 but geez I read pretty only horrible reviews
I have still to discover whether the Numa Nano supports it. Studiologic people were unable to answer !!! Lol
The only suitable Kurzweil was the km88 but it is pretty like the kawai, has pretty no control and a joystick (I want my pb+mw lol) and seems mostly targeted for piano only...
The only one I could find is the CME zkey 88 but geez I read pretty only horrible reviews
I have still to discover whether the Numa Nano supports it. Studiologic people were unable to answer !!! Lol
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- KVRian
- 519 posts since 14 Oct, 2006
Maybe you can get one of the suggested keyboards and buy korg nano controllers for sliders, etc.?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 7 Jun, 2018
No, I have not enough space for more than one master controller and I don't want to use two anyway ...
By now it seems that the SL88 despite the joysticks is the best compromise... oh well I'll get used to them...
By now it seems that the SL88 despite the joysticks is the best compromise... oh well I'll get used to them...
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- KVRian
- 519 posts since 14 Oct, 2006
The korg nano's are compact devices that you could put on the top of the master keyboard.elena2 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 8:52 am No, I have not enough space for more than one master controller and I don't want to use two anyway ...
By now it seems that the SL88 despite the joysticks is the best compromise... oh well I'll get used to them...
What does release velocity do for you that other features can't do?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 7 Jun, 2018
I liked the Nano but they confirmed: no RV.
I am simply too used to it. I control expression a lot with RV. From envelope release time to many other things. I judge a pity they tend to drop it nowadays. Imho any decent master keyboard should transmit it... especially considering that it costs *nothing* and requires no additional hardware! I can still understand that some manufacturers may want to sacrifice AT to save some bucks with the pressure sensitive ribbon, but release velocity can essily be computer as note on velocity, i.e by the opening delay of the displaced key switches used to compute regular velocity!
I am simply too used to it. I control expression a lot with RV. From envelope release time to many other things. I judge a pity they tend to drop it nowadays. Imho any decent master keyboard should transmit it... especially considering that it costs *nothing* and requires no additional hardware! I can still understand that some manufacturers may want to sacrifice AT to save some bucks with the pressure sensitive ribbon, but release velocity can essily be computer as note on velocity, i.e by the opening delay of the displaced key switches used to compute regular velocity!
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- KVRAF
- 24464 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Get a used Kurzweil PC3x or PC3K8. It also has a (pretty deep) synth engine inside but it's a helluva MIDI controller and does all you want. I've had my PC3K8 for over 10 years, it's awesome.
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- KVRAF
- 11397 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
.. or a used K2500 keyboard. It's still quite nice to play. Only problem is that it weighs a ton!
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
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- KVRian
- 519 posts since 14 Oct, 2006
Is aftertouch the same release velocity?elena2 wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 11:05 pm I liked the Nano but they confirmed: no RV.
I am simply too used to it. I control expression a lot with RV. From envelope release time to many other things. I judge a pity they tend to drop it nowadays. Imho any decent master keyboard should transmit it... especially considering that it costs *nothing* and requires no additional hardware! I can still understand that some manufacturers may want to sacrifice AT to save some bucks with the pressure sensitive ribbon, but release velocity can essily be computer as note on velocity, i.e by the opening delay of the displaced key switches used to compute regular velocity!
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- KVRian
- 620 posts since 19 Oct, 2020
No.
Release velocity is the speed, with which you let go of the pressed key. Whereas aftertouch measures the pressure of the down key.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 7 Jun, 2018
Just adding this as a vent (and again my loud injuries to the keyboard manufacturers who pretty all together dropped RV when not even AT in all recent models!!!)
I had very few options and so I decided to run the risk, and I bought a 2nd hand studiologic sl88 studio (fatar tp100). Unfortunately the only music shop where I can test *some* master keyboards here is at six hours driving so I could not test it before buying.
Geez I should have never bought one. The tp100 is possibly the worst keybed I ever tried. I wonder how can a renowned Italian manufacturer sell such a thing which is even widely adopted. Hard. Some keys suffer friction because of fabrication defects and no amount of grease or lube can fix it. A heavy yet plasticous feeling, and when pressed they tend to bounce in a rubbery way. And noisy. Very low grade mechanics. And it is a hammer action. Much better then a simple (no hammer) weighted keyboard than this stuff. Please do not buy it. I am currently trying to modify it in the hope to save my money (and even because my need for RV leaves me with too few alternate options)
I had very few options and so I decided to run the risk, and I bought a 2nd hand studiologic sl88 studio (fatar tp100). Unfortunately the only music shop where I can test *some* master keyboards here is at six hours driving so I could not test it before buying.
Geez I should have never bought one. The tp100 is possibly the worst keybed I ever tried. I wonder how can a renowned Italian manufacturer sell such a thing which is even widely adopted. Hard. Some keys suffer friction because of fabrication defects and no amount of grease or lube can fix it. A heavy yet plasticous feeling, and when pressed they tend to bounce in a rubbery way. And noisy. Very low grade mechanics. And it is a hammer action. Much better then a simple (no hammer) weighted keyboard than this stuff. Please do not buy it. I am currently trying to modify it in the hope to save my money (and even because my need for RV leaves me with too few alternate options)
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- KVRAF
- 9590 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
How old is it? It might just be the deterioration after years of heavy use… That is the problem with old stuff. I once was looking for a polyphonic aftertouch keyboard and got hold of an Elka mk88 - more than 40 years old. Its completely unusable and broken and can only be used as a spare parts collection…
In the mean time I am a very happy user of a LinnStrument, have better expression as any keyboard can deliver, including polyphonic aftertouch and release velocity. Difficult if you are trained to play piano though…
In the mean time I am a very happy user of a LinnStrument, have better expression as any keyboard can deliver, including polyphonic aftertouch and release velocity. Difficult if you are trained to play piano though…
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 115 posts since 7 Jun, 2018
Hi Shredder, see this SL88 was not in a good shape, it was used outdoors in Sicily close to the Etna volcan, a place full of flying volcan dust, and as a result the grease was all full of dust. But that was not the issue, since it had no mechanical damage. It is 2-3 years old, no more. I accurately cleaned and de-greased the whole keybed and keys, re lubed it with very soft, non stick and durable vaseline grease, I pretty turned it into a new keyboard. Despite that the touch is horrible for me, as I described. There is really nothing wrong I did. I am quite expert with mechanics btw. After all most reviews of the fatar tp100 seem to agree with my finding. But I had to risk. I accepted the risk of it not being first sight love, but I was confident I'd have got used to eventually. Nope instead. There is really a sensible friction when you press or release keys which no amount of cleaning or lubing can remove, and which is very disappointing and frustrating. At least I do feel it, maybe my hands are just too raffinate... no idea.
In addition to that, the aftertouch is almost inusable... a very strong force is required to trigger it. But the ribbons are visibly pristine and to me it looks strange that a pressure ribbon may lose sensitivity after just 2/3 years... I had changed that of my old akai mx1000 in 2017 (which I used a lot) and it is still perfect...
Then ok I really hate those joysticks in place of the PB/MW but that is just about my tastes.
I didn't know of LinnStrument, I shall definitely investigate. Thanks.
In addition to that, the aftertouch is almost inusable... a very strong force is required to trigger it. But the ribbons are visibly pristine and to me it looks strange that a pressure ribbon may lose sensitivity after just 2/3 years... I had changed that of my old akai mx1000 in 2017 (which I used a lot) and it is still perfect...
Then ok I really hate those joysticks in place of the PB/MW but that is just about my tastes.
I didn't know of LinnStrument, I shall definitely investigate. Thanks.