KVR Audio

tunafish88 · Post by **tunafish88** » Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:53 pm

Thank you everyone for the great advice! I think I have it sorted now and all versions line up with what is on the site for Windows versions.

Hadrondrift · Post by **Hadrondrift** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:05 pm

Finally did the upgrade from Legacy Collection. Overall quite pleased (TRITON, ...), but I had to manually delete all VST3 versions, because they are crashing old Cubase projects and all my templates hard (Windows 10). The projects/templates won't even open, so I cant replace VST2 with VST3. What a mess. And because the KORG development team usually works with glacial tempo, we can only hope that Steinberg will refrain from throwing out vst2 altogether for a while longer.

Many of problems I have with plugins are still VST3-related. I tend not to blame the developer of the plugins, but the complicated proprietary VST3 format for this.

Flip64 · Post by **Flip64** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:30 pm

Well I'm really grateful to the poster who pointed out there was a sale on, as despite being signed up for emails from Korg, I never get them! And I've been looking for a sale price to update my legacy collection with the latest v3. Now bought it (just in time, it seems) and will install tomorrow. Cheers!

Cheers for the headsup about the VST3s too - also using Cubase, so I'll see what happens once I'm up and running.

taicho2k · Post by **taicho2k** » Sat May 14, 2022 12:06 pm

@sahul and @zvenx Can confirm M1 -> VST3 breaks any projects with the VST2 plugin. The plugin swaps fine but the way the VST3 version plugin deserializes the data from the host appears to have changed resulting in a "broken" state in the M1 when the host pumps the previous state back in.

Sometimes this results in crashes and sometimes no crash but a completely glitched out M1.

I fixed this temporarily by using Wireshark to see where the Korg Collection app was downloading the installers from and reverting back to M1 v2.2.1.

Has anybody else found a way to migrate successfully without breakage?

I love having the M1 but frankly I'm completely shocked that the M1/Korg team didn't make absolutely certain through proper QA and testing that this situation didn't happen...this is basically the nightmare scenario that makes people nervous about using VSTs - unrecoverable work.

What makes this worse is that even if you can get the M1 to load in the example above in its glitchy state you won't be able to export the settings and reimport. I've tried looking at track export data as well but since VSTs serialize their state there's no way to effectively translate this.

Sahul · Post by **Sahul** » Sat May 14, 2022 3:40 pm

taicho2k wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 12:06 pm @sahul and @zvenx Can confirm M1 -> VST3 breaks any projects with the VST2 plugin. The plugin swaps fine but the way the VST3 version plugin deserializes the data from the host appears to have changed resulting in a "broken" state in the M1 when the host pumps the previous state back in.

Hi taicho2k, thanks for confirming. I contacted Korg support about these issues several weeks ago, still no reponse.

I fixed this temporarily by using Wireshark to see where the Korg Collection app was downloading the installers from and reverting back to M1 v2.2.1.

What I did was simply deleting the VST3 and using the v2.3.1 VST2, which works fine with old projects. It's only the VST3 which has the problems.

I love having the M1 but frankly I'm completely shocked that the M1/Korg team didn't make absolutely certain through proper QA and testing that this situation didn't happen...this is basically the nightmare scenario that makes people nervous about using VSTs - unrecoverable work.

Completely agree. For a company as big as Korg, I also find unacceptable releasing a plugin with these severe problems. I can't believe this passed a proper testing before it was made available. And it's also kind of astonishing not having a fix after almost a month since the release.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat May 14, 2022 4:22 pm

yes oftenI find Korg QA puzzling.
I do know sometimes as a beta tester (not for Korg), there are timelines fixed by marketing so some known bugs are there when released, but in my experience, often there is a quick hot fix following shortly.
rsp

ChristopherWD · Post by **ChristopherWD** » Sun May 15, 2022 6:22 am

Some things I've noticed from using the Collection, at least on my PC...

Prophecy's initial loading seems to depend heavily on the amount of presets that you have stored in the User Presets folder. If you have around 100, it gets very noticable... and if you go too far, Windows 10 starts to think the program has crashed...

I'm not too sure if it's the same with the other plugins, but if you've noticed a very slow start-up try it without the User Presets to see if it fixes anything.

I've found that MDE-X crashes sometimes when switching from one effect to another, mostly seems to be related to how fast you cycle through the effects? Something to be aware of, at least!

museelectro · Post by **museelectro** » Thu May 19, 2022 10:50 am

I’ve checked it also and tried the installers, there is still no ARP Odyssey VST3 version on Windows.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Thu May 19, 2022 2:14 pm

Same here. I got the latest software pass .11 and still no VST3 for Odyssey. Shame, as that was the one I would most like a VST3 for. All the other synths have been rock solid for me at previous versions, but Odyssey crashes horribly if I change presets while running. It might still do that as VST3 for all I know though. And Odyssey sounds the strongest out of all the collection IMO.

I very nearly got the update for collection3 for $99 - that's a good price to get the Tritons and the Prophecy, but...every demo I hear of Prophecy and it shows its age IMO - not that good a modeller for most things. Its brass is pretty awful once you edit, the woodwinds just sound like a white noise thrown on the top, and the synth filters don't stand up to new stuff. I did hear some decent stringy stuff though. And Triton - nasty grainy 90s sound - not in a good way either, maybe that's just it's FX? I remember 90s Korg FX weren't great though OK for the day. Though it looked like the hw was a good synth with controls for players that's kind of irrelevant in a plugin. Either way - I didn't like most S&S synths much in the day (with the odd exception) - not gonna start loving them now. I was happy to get M1 but TBH I think I've used it once - nostalgia for the plinky piano only.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu May 19, 2022 2:21 pm

On Windows, software pass thinks M1 needs updating no matter how many times I update it, and software pass. I've un-installed M1, restarted, installed new version etc. I'm up to date but software pass doesn't know it yet.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Thu May 19, 2022 2:22 pm

Actually - I think it did that to me too. One of them kept saying update, but can't remember which one.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu May 19, 2022 2:25 pm

Aloysius wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:21 pm On Windows, software pass thinks M1 needs updating no matter how many times I update it, and software pass. I've un-installed M1, restarted, installed new version etc. I'm up to date but software pass doesn't know it yet.

Same with me.
rsp

teilo · Post by **teilo** » Thu May 19, 2022 2:52 pm

Tell me again how VST3s are no more buggy or unstable than VST2s, and developers have no issues developing them... Awesome work, Steinberg.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu May 19, 2022 3:14 pm

teilo wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:52 pm Tell me again how VST3s are no more buggy or unstable than VST2s, and developers have no issues developing them...

Nice logic. Next time a VST2 is buggy, I blame VST2 as well.

Especially when it's involving M1 Macs.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Thu May 19, 2022 3:23 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 3:14 pm
teilo wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:52 pm Tell me again how VST3s are no more buggy or unstable than VST2s, and developers have no issues developing them...
Nice logic. Next time a VST2 is buggy, I blame VST2 as well.

It's not one buggy plugin though. Or one developer. This is a recurring theme and developers will tell you the same. VST3's just tend to be buggier for a variety of reasons (but mostly because it's a garbage format that Steinberg is using all their muscle to prop up like the dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's).

I really try to take reasonable, rational approaches and try to avoid hyperbole or getting involved in the dumpster-fire flame-wars that can occur over nonsense, but I think anyone who is being objective and totally honest will recognize that VST3 is not the great format Steinberg has been telling everyone it is for years. Sorry. It's just not good. For a whole variety of reasons that have been beaten to death already.

I just wish people said, "I use Cubase and Steinberg isn't giving in on this, so I have to loudly advocate for VST3 because I'm not switching DAWs - not because it's better".

And people complain about Apple and M1 support, but native M1 support is better. The performance gains actually benefit users unlike VST3. If Steiny exposed sidechain inputs in Cubase for VST2, had VST2/Apple Silicon support, promised to maintain VST2, and didn't try to force developers into adopting VST3, the plugin world would simply have far fewer VST3 plugins and end-users would be just fine with that because VST2 is a fine format that does everything we need.

Korg Collection 3 now has VST3 and Silicon support!