Paradigm shift - appreciating Bitwig

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Fraggle
KVRist
Topic Starter
185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham

Post Fri May 13, 2022 6:13 pm

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This post will be hated by the apple haters (for the metaphor) and the Ableton Live lovers (for the point being made).
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I used PCs and windows OS from about 1995 to 2008. Then I bought my first iMac.
It was a paradigm shift in the best sense. Everything just worked, it never needed repairing, it never needed a service. I didn’t need to defrag drives - it just did what I needed it to do. It was notably pricier than a desktop PC, but I never regretted the higher price because the quality it delivered justified it. The OS was intuitive and looked nice too. I never bought another PC.
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I don’t record instruments or a band - I do sound design, atmospheric soundscapes, generative music.
For over a decade I had been using M4L in Live - it worked for me, but I was always needing to buy new M4L devices, because I never had the time for learning something as complex as M4L device design.

I am a musician rather than a programmer - learning stuff like M4L is hard work for me - I want my time spent making sound rather than taking online courses in how to design M4L devices.
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Ableton was never stable using M4L - about a third of the time I would open a project using M4L devices it would crash Live. Similarly, about a third of the time I opened a M4L device while designing a project it would crash live. Despite hundreds of crash reports sent over the years this problem persisted into Live 11. Even $70 M4L devices crash live - and I used to PAY for that instability!!

4 weeks ago after much procrastination, I finally bought Bitwig 4.2 and after a month I realise the same thing as when I moved from PC to Apple — its a paradigm shift.

I know there’s a lot of Apple haters on these forums - that’s ok , I hate the stupid way Apple protects their audio files and makes it hard for android users to use iCloud (and many other corporate things they do). However, the OS on their computers is quantum fold better (for my needs) than Windows on a PC.

It’s the same for Bitwig and Ableton - it’s like driving a Ferrari after having driven a Hyundai for the last 16 years. Bitwig is more stable, more flexible , more useful , more fun, and more polished than Ableton. I cannot believe how clunky and awkward Live was , and how much easier it is to realise my musical ideas on Bitwig, and how I can go further in sound design. Furthermore, as Bitwig works like a massive instrument it has drastically cut down my need to search for 3rd party plug ins. I think the only area I might invest in is some physical modelling plugins. So Bitwig (over the long term) will save me money.
Zen

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jamcat
KVRAF
2007 posts since 2 Sep, 2019

Post Fri May 13, 2022 6:48 pm

For the record, a Hyundai is more reliable than a Ferrari and saves you a lot of money over the long term. And the short term.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

cel4145
KVRist
187 posts since 21 Feb, 2022

Post Fri May 13, 2022 6:57 pm

Fraggle wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:13 pm Furthermore, as Bitwig works like a massive instrument it has drastically cut down my need to search for 3rd party plug ins. I think the only area I might invest in is some physical modelling plugins. So Bitwig (over the long term) will save me money.
You must like the new additions to the 4.3 beta. Bitwig updated its game in the reverb/delay area :)

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
93333 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri May 13, 2022 7:04 pm

i do enjoy a good paradigm shift.
not sure this would be one of my top ten :shrug:
you seem a little paranoid... :?

liquidsound
KVRAF
3553 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Post Fri May 13, 2022 9:13 pm

It’s a (busy) two way street.
Nice enthusiasm though, and I wish you well.

I did the exact thing, including switching OS and I’m back to step one.

Here is Monday to Friday Ableton/PC
Weekend Bitwig iMac (4.3 new tools are actually above average) :clap:
DivHiveZille - OmniSerum - MuLAbleton

Fraggle
KVRist
Topic Starter
185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham

Post Fri May 13, 2022 9:53 pm

cel4145 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:57 pm
Fraggle wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 6:13 pm Furthermore, as Bitwig works like a massive instrument it has drastically cut down my need to search for 3rd party plug ins. I think the only area I might invest in is some physical modelling plugins. So Bitwig (over the long term) will save me money.
You must like the new additions to the 4.3 beta. Bitwig updated its game in the reverb/delay area :)
Yes - very much =)
Zen

D.K Envelope
KVRist
413 posts since 28 Oct, 2018

Post Fri May 13, 2022 10:10 pm

i woud use only bitwit devices
but the eq+ its a real problem
this eq is no latency compensated , good luck with this phase problems
a big nogo

xbitz
KVRAF
3748 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sat May 14, 2022 12:38 am

^^^ it can be 3,4,5 samples so yepp
Image
has to be null checked in parallel chains and register the latency manually but can be survived (pitch shifter has same issue)
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

SLiC
KVRAF
8653 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat May 14, 2022 1:04 am

D.K Envelope wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:10 pm i woud use only bitwit devices
but the eq+ its a real problem
this eq is no latency compensated , good luck with this phase problems
a big nogo
Well, if that is the only issue Bitwig has and all you need adding/fixing then it is indeed the most stable and fully featured DAW available!

Personally I miss midi comp, groove/extract pool, pitch to midi and Ableton’s level of integration with PUSH2 when I am using Bitwig...both need audio quantise/pitch correction and better midi editing (I think Live is slightly better at this with chord preview and scale highlight stuff, but still not great compared to Cubase/S1)
PC + S49, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, Pro 3, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack + OXI One, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals (Zoia, Beebo)

Fraggle
KVRist
Topic Starter
185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham

Post Sat May 14, 2022 2:07 am

xbitz wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:38 am ^^^ it can be 3,4,5 samples so yepp
Image
has to be null checked in parallel chains and register the latency manually but can be survived (pitch shifter has same issue)
Thanks - the photo helps me a lot - :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:
Zen

Fraggle
KVRist
Topic Starter
185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham

Post Sat May 14, 2022 2:10 am

SLiC wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 1:04 am
D.K Envelope wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:10 pm i woud use only bitwit devices
but the eq+ its a real problem
this eq is no latency compensated , good luck with this phase problems
a big nogo
Well, if that is the only issue Bitwig has and all you need adding/fixing then it is indeed the most stable and fully featured DAW available! ..........

...........midi comp, groove/extract pool, pitch to midi and Ableton’s level of integration with PUSH2 when I am using Bitwig..
I don't miss that stuff because of the type of sounds/music I make - I don't have Push 2 either
Zen

SLiC
KVRAF
8653 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat May 14, 2022 3:10 am

Fraggle wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:10 am
SLiC wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 1:04 am
D.K Envelope wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:10 pm i woud use only bitwit devices
but the eq+ its a real problem
this eq is no latency compensated , good luck with this phase problems
a big nogo
Well, if that is the only issue Bitwig has and all you need adding/fixing then it is indeed the most stable and fully featured DAW available! ..........

...........midi comp, groove/extract pool, pitch to midi and Ableton’s level of integration with PUSH2 when I am using Bitwig..
I don't miss that stuff because of the type of sounds/music I make - I don't have Push 2 either
Yup, it definitely depends what you do- I have been using Bitwig since 2015 and it is a great DAW, but not one I want to use exclusively yet, because I mainly record live drums, guitars, vocals etc I still use Studio One for this type of stuff.

I still use Live as a live looper (mainly as I am a guitarist) and I use Bigwig as a 'modular' (and with my modular)...you could probably do both with both but I just can't sell Live as I am someone tied to the content and packs (and some of the MAX stuff) as I have been using Live for about 20 years!
PC + S49, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, Pro 3, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack + OXI One, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals (Zoia, Beebo)

xbitz
KVRAF
3748 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sat May 14, 2022 2:13 pm

Note Grid was the breakthrough for me
Image
finally can be built sequencers in it, ^^^ for ex. different MIDI channels able to trigger different sequencer lines even with phase (position) reset or audio>triggering MIDI notes can be generated for modulators/effects on audio tracks etc. pretty useful
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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pekbro
KVRAF
4678 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Post Sat May 14, 2022 2:38 pm

I dunno, I currently find myself in a position to have to pay for a bitwig renewal or an upgrade to live suite. Been demoing the latest bitwig for a month and am still leaning towards live. I can't really use the last version of bitwig I have a lic for as it's not really stable at all for me, so that thing where you can use it indefinitely isn't really the case IME. Of course live 10 is not perfectly stable either, but it's way better than bitwig 3-whatever. Mostly I use Hardware and like the sampling in live. Different strokes I guess. :shrug:

*Bitwig is cheaper though, I may just cheap out in the end, bitwig being perfectly fine and all.
I don't have a push either, I have been thinking of getting one, tho I might wait for a new version.

Fraggle
KVRist
Topic Starter
185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham

Post Sat May 14, 2022 3:31 pm

xbitz wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:13 pm Note Grid was the breakthrough for me
Image
finally can be built sequencers in it, ^^^ for ex. different MIDI channels able to trigger different sequencer lines even with phase (position) reset or audio>triggering MIDI notes can be generated for modulators/effects on audio tracks etc. pretty useful
Yes - for me this was vastly beneficial for my music - though I am not skilled enough yet to build something as large as in your photo , I have found small Note Grid structures offer me wonderful sequencing control - I would have to pay 70$ for a M4L device to do the same thing and it would be a one trick pony at that - furthermore (as I wrote win the OP) using M4L for such things would increase the chances of the project crashing when being opened or when adding M4L devices --- so , yes -- the Note Grid was a massive benefit for me too
Zen

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