Paradigm shift - appreciating Bitwig

[SLiC]

This was the video that made me rethink how I was using operators on audio and to generate chord inversions etc...lots of uses...also my faveroute Bitwig teacher!

https://youtu.be/C8yUVud4KGw

[machinesworking]

I don't think I'm confusing them! I just gather different things together!

Generative music is generated by a computer or a system, right? You don't have a direct control or you can't anticipate what is there. You might just have some directions for this randomness as a source for the music. right?

I don't know really, but I'm more of a classic type. I like to write from my head. My feelings are the source not random.

generative music was made before computers were being used widely for music.
it's just a method of composition that is different is all
take reichs phase music, just a simple spoken phrase, nothing random, but by playing it out of phase with itself, generates new textures.
that's one simple example.

bowie and eno use it a lot. different method to above, but generative music in general.
it's not about pressing a random button and hoping!

Yep, you can apply rules even with various computer based audio or MIDI manipulating applications or plug ins and depending on your understanding of audio and the application you're using you can be precise about what "generates". In Metasynth for instance you can apply scales to filters. I think that's where a lot of classically aligned mentally musicians fail to grasp the simple fact that music isn't always a product of notes on a guitar or piano. The concept that the studio itself can be an instrument eludes them, even though they may be using a piano roll to write, or even using loops to augment their own creative process. Somehow the idea that someone could use PD, Max MSP, a Modular synth, any number of plug ins out there, or fast audio tweaking DAWs like Metasynth, Live etc. Seems like it's "random", which argues the point what exactly makes someone think the random restructuring of music they hear in their head is ordered?

[EnGee]

I don't think I'm confusing them! I just gather different things together!

Generative music is generated by a computer or a system, right? You don't have a direct control or you can't anticipate what is there. You might just have some directions for this randomness as a source for the music. right?

I don't know really, but I'm more of a classic type. I like to write from my head. My feelings are the source not random.

generative music was made before computers were being used widely for music.
it's just a method of composition that is different is all
take reichs phase music, just a simple spoken phrase, nothing random, but by playing it out of phase with itself, generates new textures.
that's one simple example.

bowie and eno use it a lot. different method to above, but generative music in general.
it's not about pressing a random button and hoping!

Oh I get it! It's generated by LSD!
https://youtu.be/vugqRAX7xQE


Seriously, thanks for the explanation It's more complicated than I thought. I thought it's kinda hooking a random source (like sample and hold lfo ) to a pitch or Notes or any parameter and keep cabling, but hearing some examples (like the above) and I don't understand such Art or Music to be honest. I however listened countless times to the 'airport' melodies by Eno. Nice but little bit boring for my taste.

Anyway, I do use sample and hold lfo for generating uncertainty feelings. Some randomness is nice but not all IMO and definitely not LSD generated

[vurt]

I don't think I'm confusing them! I just gather different things together!

Generative music is generated by a computer or a system, right? You don't have a direct control or you can't anticipate what is there. You might just have some directions for this randomness as a source for the music. right?

I don't know really, but I'm more of a classic type. I like to write from my head. My feelings are the source not random.

generative music was made before computers were being used widely for music.
it's just a method of composition that is different is all
take reichs phase music, just a simple spoken phrase, nothing random, but by playing it out of phase with itself, generates new textures.
that's one simple example.

bowie and eno use it a lot. different method to above, but generative music in general.
it's not about pressing a random button and hoping!

Oh I get it! It's generated by LSD!
https://youtu.be/vugqRAX7xQE


Seriously, thanks for the explanation It's more complicated than I thought. I thought it's kinda hooking a random source (like sample and hold lfo ) to a pitch or Notes or any parameter and keep cabling, but hearing some examples (like the above) and I don't understand such Art or Music to be honest. I however listened countless times to the 'airport' melodies by Eno. Nice but little bit boring for my taste.

Anyway, I do use sample and hold lfo for generating uncertainty feelings. Some randomness is nice but not all IMO and definitely not LSD generated

as machines working says, there's a lot of generative music methods. it's a very wide open "genre"

yes, sometimes you may add something like the snh lfo, but you are making the decision, and you can also quantise the output or not again, another decision...

it's certainly not just throwing things together, although many of us did start out like that
because like you, i did think oh, this sounds simple...
then you try it, and if you are honest with yourself, it's not the same.

like anything, you do it enough, it becomes second nature, so what might look to you that im randomly plugging things in to the modular, im actually rebuilding stuff ive done hundreds of times in practice sessions.
and yes, unlike "standard methods of composition" the piece may have some differences, but no more than if a rock band extends a jam, or a jazz band goes in to improv!

[EnGee]

I don't think I'm confusing them! I just gather different things together!

Generative music is generated by a computer or a system, right? You don't have a direct control or you can't anticipate what is there. You might just have some directions for this randomness as a source for the music. right?

I don't know really, but I'm more of a classic type. I like to write from my head. My feelings are the source not random.

generative music was made before computers were being used widely for music.
it's just a method of composition that is different is all
take reichs phase music, just a simple spoken phrase, nothing random, but by playing it out of phase with itself, generates new textures.
that's one simple example.

bowie and eno use it a lot. different method to above, but generative music in general.
it's not about pressing a random button and hoping!

Oh I get it! It's generated by LSD!
https://youtu.be/vugqRAX7xQE


Seriously, thanks for the explanation It's more complicated than I thought. I thought it's kinda hooking a random source (like sample and hold lfo ) to a pitch or Notes or any parameter and keep cabling, but hearing some examples (like the above) and I don't understand such Art or Music to be honest. I however listened countless times to the 'airport' melodies by Eno. Nice but little bit boring for my taste.

Anyway, I do use sample and hold lfo for generating uncertainty feelings. Some randomness is nice but not all IMO and definitely not LSD generated

as machines working says, there's a lot of generative music methods. it's a very wide open "genre"

yes, sometimes you may add something like the snh lfo, but you are making the decision, and you can also quantise the output or not again, another decision...

it's certainly not just throwing things together, although many of us did start out like that
because like you, i did think oh, this sounds simple...
then you try it, and if you are honest with yourself, it's not the same.

like anything, you do it enough, it becomes second nature, so what might look to you that im randomly plugging things in to the modular, im actually rebuilding stuff ive done hundreds of times in practice sessions.
and yes, unlike "standard methods of composition" the piece may have some differences, but no more than if a rock band extends a jam, or a jazz band goes in to improv!

Very good points You convinced me with the Jazz improvisation. I forgot about it

So, my apologies to MaschinesWorking and others if I was a thick head. I will look into it deeper and try to read with an open mind

[ReleaseCandidate]

I think that's where a lot of classically aligned mentally musicians fail to grasp the simple fact that music isn't always a product of notes on a guitar or piano. The concept that the studio itself can be an instrument eludes them

You do know that these classically aligned mentally musicians actually where the ones who, well, had that idea about 100 years ago?

The synths where a bit more, well, rudimentary (see 2:09)
https://youtu.be/dmkhM-ZMgOw?t=129

[machinesworking]

I think that's where a lot of classically aligned mentally musicians fail to grasp the simple fact that music isn't always a product of notes on a guitar or piano. The concept that the studio itself can be an instrument eludes them

You do know that these classically aligned mentally musicians actually where the ones who, well, had that idea about 100 years ago?

The synths where a bit more, well, rudimentary (see 2:09)
https://youtu.be/dmkhM-ZMgOw?t=129

Of course, a lot of classically aligned mentally musicians fail to grasp that Cage etc. are important, but that doesn't mean all of them do.

[Mr_meee]

I agree with the OP, Bitwig is currently a really exciting DAW

The fact bitwig allows you to nest fx like a modular array of cables into a single plugin preset is just mindblowing

combining multiple plugins inside a nested plugin preset is INSANE... no other DAW does such thing

You guys wanna now what i did with my Korg Wavestation plugin? i created a preset for it that adds artificial static noise and some low end coloration to make it sound even more close to the original hardware... and i did it
using other plugins, and i made that preset standard...

So everytime i load the Wavestation it instantly loads also the small static noise effect like a DAC output and an EQ that colours slightly the low end automaticly... and notice, this doesnt fill the mixer, its not a mixer preset that it loads... its actually a nested plugin option that allows you to create super complex almost like internal plugin presets with unbeliveble diversity that even goes behiond the sonic cappabilities of the plugin...

And you do this, by just creating a very small 10 , 20 kb file that is way smaller than most FXP presets i have seen...

This feature it self makes Bitwig worth it, it can give an extreme deepness into sound design and makes patch creation extremely fun...

You can simply just make a preset for a synthesizer, use whatever fx plugins you want with it, no matter if internal or external, and then just nest them with the preset you wanna save, and you dont need to worry about anything else... the preset will be saved like it was integrated in the main synthesizer...

You dont see this in any other DAW

Imagine stuff like Dexed or TAL plugins that are super basic in terms of programing... OBxd stuff like this
with this feature, you can now create the most absurdly complex drones and pads, something you wouldnt ever do with the plugin alone, because you would need to process plugins and then to save it would be more complex...
you would need to save an entire track, and the re-load it again.

While bitwig makes this feel like integrated, you just load the plugin and voila, you can search the presets you created in the same path, they are not distinguished and they will load fast.

[liquidsound]

no other DAW does such thing

That sounds like “I never tried no other DAW”

[pekbro]

you can do that in Mulab as well.