Have we reached the end of hardware synths with software plug-ins?

[Akooth]

Anyone remember the question?

"i wonder what happens if i press this button"...?

*explodes*

[BONES]

You're simply uneducated on this subject.

So must the engineers at work have been because they couldn't make it work, either.

Again, I do not get why people think there's immediately a need to to everything with touch.

So you just use it to move your mixer faders up and down? That's f**king random, man.

It's the angle, think of how you use a Surface, iPad, Android etc. Not a soul that has brain cells uses them at 90º angles. Close to a 45º angle is optimum for touch. This gives better fine movements and less wear on your arms etc.

Sorry, doesn't work for me on either of my screens, one at 90 degrees, the other at 7 degrees.

Not a lot of people prefer a mouse over motorized faders like you do

That's because most people's stupid monkey brains can't let go of the past.

[teilo]

Given the choice between physical controls and a touch screen, I'll take physical controls all day, every day.

[nightjar]

Given the choice between physical controls and a touch screen, I'll take physical controls all day, every day.

Thank goodness reality is not an either/or. We can have both.

And an optimum design can combine the two and throw in some haptic motors for good luck.

[Uncle E]

On the "Logitech MX master" series you can make the mouse wheel to be free running with no drag. For me that was a game changer. Very similar to using an endless encoder. I don't want anything else now. The only thing I could probably miss from hardware could be the ability to tweak two knobs at once.

There is an horizontal mouse wheel too, so you can navigate projects without mouse dragging too.

Thanks. Ordering.

[rafa1981]

On the "Logitech MX master" series you can make the mouse wheel to be free running with no drag. For me that was a game changer. Very similar to using an endless encoder. I don't want anything else now. The only thing I could probably miss from hardware could be the ability to tweak two knobs at once.

There is an horizontal mouse wheel too, so you can navigate projects without mouse dragging too.

Thanks. Ordering.

You will want on some synths/DAWS to use the fine modifier (Ctrl/alt). Not dragging stuff around is much more enjoyable. You'll see.

[Uncle E]

You will want on some synths/DAWS to use the fine modifier (Ctrl/alt). Not dragging stuff around is much more enjoyable. You'll see.

Thanks. I'll do that.

There used to be a device called Powermate that was basically a standalone mousewheel. The Powermate felt super smooth but the actual resolution was terrible, and you couldn't press the fine modifier key because both hands were occupied (mouse in one hand, Powermate in the other). Is there a way to set the computer up to automatically trigger the fine modifier any time the mousewheel is moved, maybe using Keyboard Maestro? Or does any DAW have the option to make fine modifier be the default?

[machinesworking]

You're simply uneducated on this subject.

So must the engineers at work have been because they couldn't make it work, either.

Appeals to authority help if you research I suppose, I did, the latest versions of your mice work under Mac OS.

Again, I do not get why people think there's immediately a need to to everything with touch.

So you just use it to move your mixer faders up and down? That's f**king random, man.

What's random is some guy who claims mice are superior then sticks to it no matter what is presented. I originally picked up the Raven to eliminate a hardware Mackie Control and to use for sound design with soft synths, everything else is icing. One distinct way it's better is definitely with any decent GUI soft synth and preset design. Being right handed I use the left to interact with the VSTi on screen while playing the VSTi with the right, this is sloppy at best with a mouse, unless you're using your non dominant hand to play the keys, which isn't ideal at all.

Sorry, doesn't work for me on either of my screens, one at 90 degrees, the other at 7 degrees.

7 degrees is even better.
Not surprising that if I where you I wouldn't touch a mouse much with the Zenbook you have, that second tinier screen would mostly have the mixer parked there, it's trivial to use a modifier to get fine fader adjustments. You have the future right there in front of you and refuse to use it. It's absolutely your right, and you have years of doing it that way, but functionally it's just your preferences that prevents it from being a logical choice.

Not a lot of people prefer a mouse over motorized faders like you do

That's because most people's stupid monkey brains can't let go of the past.

I would say the same thing about mice as mixing tools, especially towards the end when you're looking at the mixer on the screen in your DAW.

[machinesworking]

Given the choice between physical controls and a touch screen, I'll take physical controls all day, every day.

Not me, the least amount of clutter the better. Plus the only device I know of that solves the visual feedback issue cleanly control surface wise is Push 2, it's a big enough LED that it gives enough feedback to where you're not glancing at the computer screen for reference. Push 2 also only works with a limited number of DAWs, Live, Bitwig, Reaper, and Reason.

[machinesworking]

On the "Logitech MX master" series you can make the mouse wheel to be free running with no drag. For me that was a game changer. Very similar to using an endless encoder. I don't want anything else now. The only thing I could probably miss from hardware could be the ability to tweak two knobs at once.

There is an horizontal mouse wheel too, so you can navigate projects without mouse dragging too.

I've got an old MX revolution and the only downside to me is the newer ones have dedicated horizontal scroll wheels. I still prefer the touch screen for messing with soft synths, but for the ones that have wonky GUIs the Mx is great.

I like that it's a simple click to switch. I have my mouse on super fast settings and the smooth setting can be dangerous at times.

[zerocrossing]

On the "Logitech MX master" series you can make the mouse wheel to be free running with no drag. For me that was a game changer. Very similar to using an endless encoder. I don't want anything else now. The only thing I could probably miss from hardware could be the ability to tweak two knobs at once.

There is an horizontal mouse wheel too, so you can navigate projects without mouse dragging too.

Thanks. Ordering.

I’ve been using a Kinsington Expert Mouse (surprise, it’s a track ball!) since the early 00s and I swear, it’s the best. It’s like having a huge rotary encoder.

[zerocrossing]

I prefer Bitwig Grid to all the eurorack I had and I find Zebra HZ which I recently bought more interesting than any hardware synth I have owned.. I honestly don't think we need any more analog synths making now, how many times can we hear variations on a saw wave into a filter.. i really want to splash some cash on one piece of hardware but I can't find anything I find that interesting..

Well, if you can find me software that does everything the PolyBrute does, I’d love to know about it. That’s including having convincing analog VCOs, VCAs and VCFs.

One of my “issues,” (not really) is that all the good analog emulations stick pretty close to the classic 2 oscillator, single filter design. Getting a third envelope seems to be a bridge too far. Of course there’s modulars, like Softube Modular, but those are monophonic (I know, but realistically…).

I’d love to get rid of my Dominion 1. It’s huge! But I’m not even able to replicate it in modular plugins. I once tried in Reaktor blocks, and I was able to replicate most of the functions, but it just didn’t sound as wild and raw.

[BONES]

Thething is, you don't need a emulation to get a convincing analogue sound. DUNE, for example, does a great job and it's got way more options than your PolyBrute, I'm sure. A good V/A can be as convincing as the best direct emulations.

You're simply uneducated on this subject.

So must the engineers at work have been because they couldn't make it work, either.

Appeals to authority help if you research I suppose, I did, the latest versions of your mice work under Mac OS.

Jesus H. f**king Christ! That's not an "appeal to authority" argument, it's stating a f**king fact. It was a work computer, it was locked down tight, only the engineering guys with their admin passwords could change anything. Have you never had a f**king job?

What's random is some guy who claims mice are superior then sticks to it no matter what is presented.

I'm not arguing, obviously you know what works for you better than I do, I'm just sayiing that choosing one thing to do with touch, something that is no easier, harder, more or less important than a thousand other things you might do, seems f**king random to me. If anything, I was making an excuse for my previous assumptionn.

Being right handed I use the left to interact with the VSTi on screen while playing the VSTi with the right, this is sloppy at best with a mouse, unless you're using your non dominant hand to play the keys, which isn't ideal at all.

I'm left-handed but I use a mouse with my right and I play equally poorly with either hand. I can;'t say that those are two things I ever need to do at the same time, though.

7 degrees is even better.

Except I have to reach across the keyboard to get at it, so I can't rest my hand or wrist, which makes it just as floaty as the main screen.

Not surprising that if I where you I wouldn't touch a mouse much with the Zenbook you have, that second tinier screen would mostly have the mixer parked there, it's trivial to use a modifier to get fine fader adjustments.

"Modifier"? I use the extra screen for the piano roll because its height isn't well suited to the mixer in S1 - it's either not tall enough or there's too much wasted space.

You have the future right there in front of you and refuse to use it.

I'd do it that way if it was better but it's not so I'd just be doing it because I can, which is the definition of stupid.

I would say the same thing about mice as mixing tools, especially towards the end when you're looking at the mixer on the screen in your DAW.

I'm always looking at my mixer. It is visible 100% of the time I am working. After all, it is the centre of your workflow, everything comes out of, and goes back into, the mixer.

[pdxindy]

I prefer Bitwig Grid to all the eurorack I had and I find Zebra HZ which I recently bought more interesting than any hardware synth I have owned.. I honestly don't think we need any more analog synths making now, how many times can we hear variations on a saw wave into a filter.. i really want to splash some cash on one piece of hardware but I can't find anything I find that interesting..

Well, if you can find me software that does everything the PolyBrute does, I’d love to know about it. That’s including having convincing analog VCOs, VCAs and VCFs.

One of my “issues,” (not really) is that all the good analog emulations stick pretty close to the classic 2 oscillator, single filter design. Getting a third envelope seems to be a bridge too far. Of course there’s modulars, like Softube Modular, but those are monophonic (I know, but realistically…).

The good analog emulations are fairly simple also because it would take too much CPU to emulate a more complex synth like the PolyBrute.

But even if an emulation could exactly replicate the sound of the PolyBrute, it would never be as good a workflow as the PolyBrute which has a fantastic UI!

I know nothing in software that gives me the same results as the PolyBrute, Waldorf M and Rytm. Same with the Matriarch. Using hardware is fun and satisfying. A hybrid studio works for me!

[BONES]

By the same token, nothing in hardware can match DUNE or Falcon or literally dozens of other softsynths that cost one-tenth as much and never break down. e.g. What hardware synth has a wave-sequencing LFO set-up as amazing as the $89 ArcSyn? What hardware synth can match ANA 2's 6 x oscillators with per-voice unison, 3 x ADSR envelopes with adjustable slope, 3 x MSEG and an amazing suite of high quality effects? And ANA 2 is regularly less than $100. And all of these softsynths sound absolutely amazing, probably better than any hardware synth I've ever heard. When you limit your perception of softsynths to how well they can emulate synths from 50 years ago that nobody wanted for several decades, you're missing the whole f**king point of having synths in the first place.