Creative Nirvana still exists in Muzys
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
lepwisk you like the loop composer better than live 4?!!!
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- KVRist
- 53 posts since 7 Jan, 2003 from Toronto
Indeed I do, although I must add that I haven't used Live 4 all that much. I should also say that it is MIDI loop sequencing, coupled with parameter manipulation on my external synths, that is my original creative love. And what I like about Muzys is that it is first and foremost a powerful and flexible MIDI sequencer, with audio capabilities that were well integrated into it later. Thus every loop (whether for external synth, VSTi, Muzynth synth patch or Muzynth audio part) is esssentially a MIDI sequence you can edit, transpose, change velocity, note length, etc. as you please. Live has always struck me as an audio loop playback machine, with poor (if any?) audio editing capabilities and up until v.4 no MIDI sequencing. Live 4's MIDI implementation on the surface seems like simple, step sequencing.stale bread wrote:lepwisk you like the loop composer better than live 4?!!!
I've always compared Muzys to hardware sequencers like the Akai MPC series. The only difference is that with the Akai's, loop lengths were fixed for the entire track (i.e. all part loops would have to be X bars long), while in Muzys loop lengths can be set individually (i.e some loops at 4 bars, some at 16 bars, some at 143 bars, etc.). You can create some really great cascading patterns with this. You can also incorporate any audio sample longer than your typical 4-bar loop, like spoken word pieces (I've created some pretty cool stuff with Marshal McLuhan samples), crowd noises (I've made pieces using 2 minute recordings I made at a parade), and lots of other neat stuff you could never fit into Live.
Please feel free to correct me if you feel I'm not really grasping Live's true potential.
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- KVRAF
- 4143 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia
There was just so much to be happy about with Muzys.
I always felt that it sat between something like Cubase and something like Orion. Part soft-studio, part linear sequencer.
The thing that impressed me so much is it had the free and easy pattern-based sequencing methodology of the soft-studio variety (although much better in my opinion) with the comprehensive midi editing of the flagship sequencers.
This put it right on the top shelf for me.
The fact that I could compose smaller loops together and then record a jam session with the different loops I'd put together into verses and choruses. It was just amazingly powerful for arranging a song.
The live aspect was unbelievable including the ability to assign patterns and loops to keys on your keyboard.
It was really stable and MuZynth was really like an in-built Crystal and professional sampler together with it's own sample/wave editor tightly integrated with the entire Muzys engine.
There were a few areas where I found Muzys deficient from my own perspective and this was disk streaming audio and the ability to use VST midi etc..
Then again - if I drop Energy VSTi into Muzys then I have a disk streaming audio device right there.
I could also use it as a VSTmidi wrapper as well.
Maybe things aren't as bad as they seem.
I am really interested to see the next chapter of Muzys whatever it may be and I'm quietly keeping the faith while learning how to use EnergyXT.
Caleb
I always felt that it sat between something like Cubase and something like Orion. Part soft-studio, part linear sequencer.
The thing that impressed me so much is it had the free and easy pattern-based sequencing methodology of the soft-studio variety (although much better in my opinion) with the comprehensive midi editing of the flagship sequencers.
This put it right on the top shelf for me.
The fact that I could compose smaller loops together and then record a jam session with the different loops I'd put together into verses and choruses. It was just amazingly powerful for arranging a song.
The live aspect was unbelievable including the ability to assign patterns and loops to keys on your keyboard.
It was really stable and MuZynth was really like an in-built Crystal and professional sampler together with it's own sample/wave editor tightly integrated with the entire Muzys engine.
There were a few areas where I found Muzys deficient from my own perspective and this was disk streaming audio and the ability to use VST midi etc..
Then again - if I drop Energy VSTi into Muzys then I have a disk streaming audio device right there.
I could also use it as a VSTmidi wrapper as well.
Maybe things aren't as bad as they seem.
I am really interested to see the next chapter of Muzys whatever it may be and I'm quietly keeping the faith while learning how to use EnergyXT.
Caleb
Last edited by Caleb on Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
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- Banned
- 237 posts since 7 Oct, 2004
I had several serious musical attempts at using Muzys but in the end I found the interface so cumbersome, that I realised making compositions was going to be an inefficient task with Muzys.
So I never caught the Muzys fever.
The only thing that I missed in Muzys were the effects. The effects represented outstanding quality and ease of use. I only wish more software developers could pay attention to how Muzys designed its sound effects.
So I never caught the Muzys fever.
The only thing that I missed in Muzys were the effects. The effects represented outstanding quality and ease of use. I only wish more software developers could pay attention to how Muzys designed its sound effects.
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
I thought ppl didn't like Muzys because it was too simple. There are no connection options unlike Bidule . It's so easy to use, it's like a toy. I'm using CMuzys and I haven't touched the built in effects. The CM VSTi's aren't as wonderful as some make them out to be. However, Muzys cranks out the songs in no time.
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- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
Heh, you've got me going too now... (There's no misty-eyed smiley...)
ComputerMuzys is a cut down version of Muzys 2.x. It's missing huge chunks of what was in Muzys 3.x. That was the other thing I kept hoping Jo would sort out: CMuzys wasn't really working any more as a marketing ploy. I'm pretty sure the CM mag guys were also trying to get Jo to give them a newer version.
Connections-wise, Muzys has quite a lot. It's got Rewire. It's got a MIDI patch bay. You can use it to do various on-the-fly MIDI manipulations (like translating from on MIDI CC to another). I works with both MIDI Sync and MTC (as master). You can even use a MIDI CC to control the sequencer tempo!
32 synth rack slots. All the audio outs can be routed to separate mixing desk channels (of which there are 16, so you do end up having to share). There are also 16 "aux" (send) channels. And another 16 "out" channels. The outs can be routed to any of your hardware outs. Each channel has eight effects slots, which can be pre or post panner/fader. So that's a hell of a lot of effects slots.
As lion_cub mentioned, it's got a fair selection of built in effects. For me, they sound too digital but they do what they say they do!
MuZynth's been mentioned. A three generator synth - where generators can be simple oscillators or samples - or WaveMaps: different MIDI Notes triggering a different sample. Each generator has two dedicated DSP blocks. Then there are various other routing options through more DSP blocks. And a 16 slot modulation matrix with 7 built in modulators plus MIDI controls plus...
(I spent some time playing with MuZynth before deciding synthesis was too difficult for me. I made a half-way decent trumpet...)
You can route individual MIDI events separately, either by directly editing the events (or sequence or track) or using the MultiPlayer mapping tool (which, of course, lets you remap the note events on the way).
Like Caleb and I said - it was starting to look dated last year. I'd been badgering Jo to get completely flexible (i.e. no fixed slots) MIDI and audio routing in. This would have made Muzys an utterly fantastic app. We can only hope.
(There's no misty-eyed smiley...)ComputerMuzys is a cut down version of Muzys 2.x. It's missing huge chunks of what was in Muzys 3.x. That was the other thing I kept hoping Jo would sort out: CMuzys wasn't really working any more as a marketing ploy. I'm pretty sure the CM mag guys were also trying to get Jo to give them a newer version.
Connections-wise, Muzys has quite a lot. It's got Rewire. It's got a MIDI patch bay. You can use it to do various on-the-fly MIDI manipulations (like translating from on MIDI CC to another). I works with both MIDI Sync and MTC (as master). You can even use a MIDI CC to control the sequencer tempo!
32 synth rack slots. All the audio outs can be routed to separate mixing desk channels (of which there are 16, so you do end up having to share). There are also 16 "aux" (send) channels. And another 16 "out" channels. The outs can be routed to any of your hardware outs. Each channel has eight effects slots, which can be pre or post panner/fader. So that's a hell of a lot of effects slots.
As lion_cub mentioned, it's got a fair selection of built in effects. For me, they sound too digital but they do what they say they do!
MuZynth's been mentioned. A three generator synth - where generators can be simple oscillators or samples - or WaveMaps: different MIDI Notes triggering a different sample. Each generator has two dedicated DSP blocks. Then there are various other routing options through more DSP blocks. And a 16 slot modulation matrix with 7 built in modulators plus MIDI controls plus...
(I spent some time playing with MuZynth before deciding synthesis was too difficult for me. I made a half-way decent trumpet...)
You can route individual MIDI events separately, either by directly editing the events (or sequence or track) or using the MultiPlayer mapping tool (which, of course, lets you remap the note events on the way).
Like Caleb and I said - it was starting to look dated last year. I'd been badgering Jo to get completely flexible (i.e. no fixed slots) MIDI and audio routing in. This would have made Muzys an utterly fantastic app. We can only hope.
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- KVRist
- 52 posts since 5 Aug, 2002 from Cleveland, Ohio
There are many great things about Muzys, here are a few:stale bread wrote:hey very interesting, .... in laymens terms what is so great about muzys to you guys...minus the spiritual embellishments of course.
i've got so many versions of cm with muzys on it but i'd like to know what you experienced users are really liking about it.
thanks
-bread
-When I first started using it (CMuzys 1.0) what initialy attracted me was the way everything had it's place. What I mean by that is- you hit the 'composer button' you get the composer, you hit the 'mixer button' you get the mixer, you hit the 'synth rack button' you get the synth rack, ect. Unlike the "big" sequencers where you could have a kajillion different windows open all hiding each other. It just seemed like a much better work flow for me. I got alot more done much faster than I did with my former sequencer.
When I checked out the full version I found some other things that suited my music creation needs.
-With both ReWire and full VST2 support I could run Reason along side my soft synths and run both through VSTfX.
-The wave editor and built in sampler seemed easy to use and well intergrated. Great for choppin' loops and poppin' into your song to fit it's tempo.
And with version three it got even better.
-The mighty Muzynth synth/sampler built right in. Though personaly I don't find it as intuitive of an instrument as Muzys is a sequencer.
-Great live performance capabilities. Like 'Multiplayers' where you can assing different keys or groups of keys to different sound sources, either an instrument or to trigger a loop or whatever.
Of coarse it has its downsides:
-Not enough mixer channels (Only 16)
-No direct disc streaming of audio
-All loops and samples must be run through the Muzynth
But all in all it's a very powerfull program, and once you get used to the way it's set up you can move from inspiration to creation in a breeze. That's my experiance with it anyways.
Hope that helps.
-Kalkin-
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- KVRist
- 77 posts since 9 Oct, 2002 from UK
I remember it well, still have it on my HD, damm fine tune!Exit Zero wrote:i made a pretty killer drum and bass track...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 278 posts since 19 Nov, 2002 from Bloomington, Indiana USA
Now that we're all here and still curious...
Let's all make an effort to visit the unoffical support site:
http://digitalmusicianx.com/home/module ... forum&f=25
I plan to visit at least once a week, to offer support where I can. I know that AB_Trancer is also currently trying to create an entire domain for fans of Muzys.
Let's all make an effort to visit the unoffical support site:
http://digitalmusicianx.com/home/module ... forum&f=25
I plan to visit at least once a week, to offer support where I can. I know that AB_Trancer is also currently trying to create an entire domain for fans of Muzys.
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
it does seem like you're not aware of Live 4s potential, as it can do those things easily such as play 2minutes of audio or 10 minutes of audio just aslepwisk wrote:Indeed I do, although I must add that I haven't used Live 4 all that much. I should also say that it is MIDI loop sequencing, coupled with parameter manipulation on my external synths, that is my original creative love. And what I like about Muzys is that it is first and foremost a powerful and flexible MIDI sequencer, with audio capabilities that were well integrated into it later. Thus every loop (whether for external synth, VSTi, Muzynth synth patch or Muzynth audio part) is esssentially a MIDI sequence you can edit, transpose, change velocity, note length, etc. as you please. Live has always struck me as an audio loop playback machine, with poor (if any?) audio editing capabilities and up until v.4 no MIDI sequencing. Live 4's MIDI implementation on the surface seems like simple, step sequencing.stale bread wrote:lepwisk you like the loop composer better than live 4?!!!
I've always compared Muzys to hardware sequencers like the Akai MPC series. The only difference is that with the Akai's, loop lengths were fixed for the entire track (i.e. all part loops would have to be X bars long), while in Muzys loop lengths can be set individually (i.e some loops at 4 bars, some at 16 bars, some at 143 bars, etc.). You can create some really great cascading patterns with this. You can also incorporate any audio sample longer than your typical 4-bar loop, like spoken word pieces (I've created some pretty cool stuff with Marshal McLuhan samples), crowd noises (I've made pieces using 2 minute recordings I made at a parade), and lots of other neat stuff you could never fit into Live.
Please feel free to correct me if you feel I'm not really grasping Live's true potential.
efficiently but muzys does sound very good, just how much is missing from the current cm version of muzys and the one you guys are really excited about?, i know for one theres no muzsynth but is there any thing else missing thats notable?
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- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
Not much to ad here
I think most people using cubase have noticed the thing that ocasionaly happens. The meter turns 100% and you desperate try to disable the plugin at fault. Its a great way spending 15 minutes, and its great for my therapist.
In Muzys i can set at which percent the audioengine should stop. Set it to 90% and you're out of trouble.
When i go to the toilet i usually masterbate with the turnkey catalog in my left and my empty wallet in my right. I play this mindgame where i get to choose one thing on every page or one thing from every category/section. Now .. when i get to the sequensersection.. its all quiet. No voice saying "Whoo, that sequenser i want, it would be so excellent, i love it!". Just dead quiet.
Its just like with the behringers bcr-2000. For a long time it was not included in the catalog and i "had" to choose either mackies or the other one .. um, the blue "one". I felt those were anoyingly expensive and choosing them made me feel greedy. Thank mother earth, behringers controllers are now included. I ordered it recently and will have my bcr in a few days
Ive thought of it a lot. Why is it so much easier to start making music with muzys rather than Cubase. The idea is pretty much the same. You have the pianoroll, you have the clips. Maybe its the locations of the buttons and so on, maybe its the response (i mean (no, im quite friendly actually) in the way you set windows to repeat a letter if you press the key long enough. Its just "there" and its working very good).
Im using DUAL 21" monitors at 1600*1200 each. In Cubase i always feel like i need those new flat 24" wide monitors (1940*1200) and preferable three of them. As someone said, you get all this cazilion of windows, and no matter how you do it, you could always use (and need) more space. Muzys (like tracktion) fits all in one window. It feels a little bit like logic. Ive only worked with logic during a short timeperiod, but i fell deep for the "numpad for different windows"-thing.
Discstreaming is a huge issue (for me at least). The way audio is recorded is nowhere near the direct workingscheme of muzys midi. Therefore i wish muzys could be used as a rewire slave. That way i could use muzys strictly as a midisequenser and output all the vsti's directly into cubase. I think the mixer of cubase is a little better, the signal path is a little more clear there.
Ive had a long period of no musicmaking at all. Its only recently that i have started working again, and i automaticaly went for cubase (ive cleaned the the desktop and muzys icon was gone), but now, after reading this thread, i absolutely will use muzys again.
Just a thought. Maybe Jo (that is his name, right?) should evolve muzys in a way that resembles to reason. With that i only mean the "Tab"-button.
Use seperate sequensing windows for audio and midi, and maybe a little graphic view telling whats happening on the 'other' side. That way we wouldnt risk messing up the ease of midi that is muzys.
My finger hurts, your eyes hurts. 
I think most people using cubase have noticed the thing that ocasionaly happens. The meter turns 100% and you desperate try to disable the plugin at fault. Its a great way spending 15 minutes, and its great for my therapist.
In Muzys i can set at which percent the audioengine should stop. Set it to 90% and you're out of trouble.
When i go to the toilet i usually masterbate with the turnkey catalog in my left and my empty wallet in my right. I play this mindgame where i get to choose one thing on every page or one thing from every category/section. Now .. when i get to the sequensersection.. its all quiet. No voice saying "Whoo, that sequenser i want, it would be so excellent, i love it!". Just dead quiet.
Its just like with the behringers bcr-2000. For a long time it was not included in the catalog and i "had" to choose either mackies or the other one .. um, the blue "one". I felt those were anoyingly expensive and choosing them made me feel greedy. Thank mother earth, behringers controllers are now included. I ordered it recently and will have my bcr in a few days
Ive thought of it a lot. Why is it so much easier to start making music with muzys rather than Cubase. The idea is pretty much the same. You have the pianoroll, you have the clips. Maybe its the locations of the buttons and so on, maybe its the response (i mean (no, im quite friendly actually) in the way you set windows to repeat a letter if you press the key long enough. Its just "there" and its working very good).
Im using DUAL 21" monitors at 1600*1200 each. In Cubase i always feel like i need those new flat 24" wide monitors (1940*1200) and preferable three of them. As someone said, you get all this cazilion of windows, and no matter how you do it, you could always use (and need) more space. Muzys (like tracktion) fits all in one window. It feels a little bit like logic. Ive only worked with logic during a short timeperiod, but i fell deep for the "numpad for different windows"-thing.
Discstreaming is a huge issue (for me at least). The way audio is recorded is nowhere near the direct workingscheme of muzys midi. Therefore i wish muzys could be used as a rewire slave. That way i could use muzys strictly as a midisequenser and output all the vsti's directly into cubase. I think the mixer of cubase is a little better, the signal path is a little more clear there.
Ive had a long period of no musicmaking at all. Its only recently that i have started working again, and i automaticaly went for cubase (ive cleaned the the desktop and muzys icon was gone), but now, after reading this thread, i absolutely will use muzys again.
Just a thought. Maybe Jo (that is his name, right?) should evolve muzys in a way that resembles to reason. With that i only mean the "Tab"-button.
Use seperate sequensing windows for audio and midi, and maybe a little graphic view telling whats happening on the 'other' side. That way we wouldnt risk messing up the ease of midi that is muzys.
My finger hurts, your eyes hurts.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 278 posts since 19 Nov, 2002 from Bloomington, Indiana USA
Crystal is a great "alternative" to Muzynth. It's free, it's powerful and sounds gorgeous.stale bread wrote:efficiently but muzys does sound very good, just how much is missing from the current cm version of muzys and the one you guys are really excited about?, i know for one theres no muzsynth but is there any thing else missing thats notable?
But the real "what else" for me is VERY stable VST/VSTI support and lots of headroom to do it in. Just try to load up as many plugz in another host (like Cubase - ha!.) I dare you.
No, I triple dog dare you!!!
"oh my, did he really say the triple dog dare?"
"Ho.....Ho.....Ho....."
Last edited by Exit Zero on Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
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- KVRAF
- 1972 posts since 18 Apr, 2004
so there is nothing else missing from the cm version besides the synth?