DMG x AFX : ODDSound MTS-ESP Microtuning System

[j[b++]]

With the arrival of V Collection 9 Arturia now supports retuning via MTS-ESP in the following plugins :

Augmented Strings
Augmented Voices
KORG MS20 V
SQ80 V
CS80 V
Prophet-5 V
Prophet-VS V
Piano V3
Jun-6 V
Jup-8 V
OP-Xa V
Stage V2
Vocoder V
Emulator II V
Mellotron V
Synthi V
CZ V

All of which can do continuous or note on retuning. Thanks to the awesome folks at Arturia for making it happen!

I am excited to hear that!

Although I do not own V Collection 9 I hope for MTS-ESP implementation in Arturia Pigments which I do own an like very much.

[aMUSEd]

Tbh I find it easier to have plugins that load their own tunings than to have to rely on a separate plugin to do this. I wonder if this is stopping developers bothering with implementing internal tuning within plugins.

[j[b++]]

Every Plugin with MTS-ESP implementation that I know also implements Scala *. scl or *. tun-files.

So, I would expect that MTS-ESP does not stop separate tuning implementations in the future as it does not stop it by now according to my knowledge.

[Andreya_Autumn]

Oh wow, you really find it easier to load tunings into each instance?

I used to do that all the time, and came back around to that workflow this week after realizing (a bit late...) that the Oddsound tuning plug would probably disqualify from the Surge XT OSC.
I did *not* miss this sh't let me tell ya...
I've used four 12-note tunings for this tune, and while not every instance of Surge plays in all four, a good amount of them play in two or three. Duplicating instances of the plugin and loading the correct tuning into each instance gets old pretty fast for me...
And then making changes to the sounds I gotta go through the instances... Let's just say I'm grateful I don't have to do it this way much anymore.

I don't mean to say I'm right and you're wrong of course. But I am really curious how you work, if you don't find these things incredibly tedious.

[Ah_Dziz]

How easy does this make it to switch between different tunings in the midst of a song? I'd like to be able to use a midi track (keys witches or CC messages) to swap all the tunings of all supported instruments here and there. I asked the developers if it was doable but didn't hear anything back.

[j[b++]]

You can apply a MIDI CC to a macro to even morph between different tunings.
Just select two different tunings and add the respective macro.
I am using the morph macro all the time but did not test the MIDI CC part yet.

[aMUSEd]

Every Plugin with MTS-ESP implementation that I know also implements Scala *. scl or *. tun-files.

So, I would expect that MTS-ESP does not stop separate tuning implementations in the future as it does not stop it by now according to my knowledge.

That's the thing that prompted me to mention it - all the aforementioned Arturia ones don't (apart from Pigments - really hope they don't take it out of Pigments now) - I guess it's easier now to add the code that links to MTS than it is to implement Tun/SCL loading, but this is a pity because it means I now have to load another plugin into the project somewhere (tbh not even tried it yet as I even though it did look interesting when it came out not many synths used it then and I was so used to using the direct method I didn't get round to it, but now that it seems to be becoming the preferred or only method I guess I will have to - do you need to put it before the instrument and then route midi between or what?)

[aMUSEd]

Oh wow, you really find it easier to load tunings into each instance?

I used to do that all the time, and came back around to that workflow this week after realizing (a bit late...) that the Oddsound tuning plug would probably disqualify from the Surge XT OSC.
I did *not* miss this sh't let me tell ya...
I've used four 12-note tunings for this tune, and while not every instance of Surge plays in all four, a good amount of them play in two or three. Duplicating instances of the plugin and loading the correct tuning into each instance gets old pretty fast for me...
And then making changes to the sounds I gotta go through the instances... Let's just say I'm grateful I don't have to do it this way much anymore.

I don't mean to say I'm right and you're wrong of course. But I am really curious how you work, if you don't find these things incredibly tedious.

I don't use lots of instances so it's not an issue until now

[Andreya_Autumn]

I don't use lots of instances so it's not an issue until now

Well, if it works for you it works I guess.

And for sure, it'd be a shame if devs stopped supporting other methods. I very much doubt that's what the ODDsound crew want; I've been in touch with them regularly since this release last year and their attitude always stood out to me as being very collaborative-minded.

I saw your other comment too. I'd encourage trying out the free ODDsound lite plugin! Even if you've got the older per-instance workflow locked down (I used to as well...) you may find it relieving.

For any compatible synths (like the Arturia ones), you don't need to place this before the synths in question, or mess with the MIDI in any other way.

Just make an empty track at the top called "tuning" or something, then load the MTS-ESP tuning master on that one. All the compatible synths will tune themselves to whatever that tuning plugin says, just saves you the time to load a tuning into each synth individually.

I have that set up as a default in my DAW now, so when I start a new project that tuning track is already there. Whenever I want to work in 12-EDO I just delete it.

The freebie doesn't let you switch between tunings though, you need the paid version for that. So for songs with more than one tuning table in them, you wont get as much benefit.

The free one = manage tuning globally instead of per-instance.
The paid version = same as above + changing tunings on-the-fly + MIDI tools to work with otherwise non-compatible synths.

[Andreya_Autumn]

How easy does this make it to switch between different tunings in the midst of a song? I'd like to be able to use a midi track (keys witches or CC messages) to swap all the tunings of all supported instruments here and there. I asked the developers if it was doable but didn't hear anything back.

You need the paid version to do it, but once you have that it's easy. This is one of its main purposes.
Like I said above, my default DAW template nowadays has a track at the top with the ODDsound plugin on it, and MIDI mapping to change between tunings using MIDI notes.
Put MIDI notes on the timeline wherever you want the tuning to change, easy as that.

Here's an example that was made with such a workflow: https://soundcloud.com/aliv_music/lofi- ... al_sharing

It's in Just Intonation, which means C# and Db are actually separate notes. Same for D# and Eb, and all those other note pairs that are usually the same frequency.
The start of the tune is in Bb Minor, but after a while it's in E Major. Lots of notes have to change between flats and sharps in the process. You could put all those notes into the same tuning table, but it'd be unplayable on a regular keyboard. It's nicer to switch between different 12-note tunings instead.

You know how it is with mileage, it varies. Myself I'm just super thankful this stuff exists nowadays. <3

[filulilu]

The free one = manage tuning globally instead of per-instance.
The paid version = same as above + changing tunings on-the-fly + MIDI tools to work with otherwise non-compatible synths.

Also with the paid version you can make your own tunings, with the free one you can't

[aMUSEd]

Just make an empty track at the top called "tuning" or something, then load the MTS-ESP tuning master on that one. All the compatible synths will tune themselves to whatever that tuning plugin says, just saves you the time to load a tuning into each synth individually.

That's interesting, it sounds like this would be even better if MST-ESP was built in at the host level, so one didn't need to insert a plugin or create a track at all, you could just set and switch the tuning for a project within the host itself. The only host I know that has global tuning right now is Logic but it's not good for on the fly tuning changes.

[filulilu]

The only host I know that has global tuning right now is Logic but it's not good for on the fly tuning changes.

And it can only make tunings with twelve notes per octave. You can not divide the octave differently or make tunings that repeat at other intervals than an octave.

[Ah_Dziz]

How easy does this make it to switch between different tunings in the midst of a song? I'd like to be able to use a midi track (keys witches or CC messages) to swap all the tunings of all supported instruments here and there. I asked the developers if it was doable but didn't hear anything back.

You need the paid version to do it, but once you have that it's easy. This is one of its main purposes.
Like I said above, my default DAW template nowadays has a track at the top with the ODDsound plugin on it, and MIDI mapping to change between tunings using MIDI notes.
Put MIDI notes on the timeline wherever you want the tuning to change, easy as that.

Here's an example that was made with such a workflow: https://soundcloud.com/aliv_music/lofi- ... al_sharing

It's in Just Intonation, which means C# and Db are actually separate notes. Same for D# and Eb, and all those other note pairs that are usually the same frequency.
The start of the tune is in Bb Minor, but after a while it's in E Major. Lots of notes have to change between flats and sharps in the process. You could put all those notes into the same tuning table, but it'd be unplayable on a regular keyboard. It's nicer to switch between different 12-note tunings instead.

You know how it is with mileage, it varies. Myself I'm just super thankful this stuff exists nowadays. <3

Thanks for the info! I enjoyed your piece too.

I've been using multiples of instruments with different tunings and just changing the channels. I have been having fun with very small tones ( mostly 3 octaves of keys for a single octave) this allows for some odd melodies and interesting performance, but without a way to switch the tunings to a different root note it's hard to perform through chord changes and such. I guess I'll scoop up the paid version. Also if you have Cthulhu or another "chord player". There's lots of fun to be had feeding the output into a strange tuning. I can imagine it will be much more fun once I can swap the tuning with a simple key switch.

[Ah_Dziz]

Also do any of the synths that are compatible support the tuning changing mid note? I could mimic this through other methods, but it would be cool for notes to change to the new tuning while they are still sounding.

Oops. Just saw the answer on the website.