Is virtual analog an advertising ploy?

[Unaspected]

Ears and talent are everything.

This.

all words and text are marketing, ignore them. use your auditory sensor system and use your own judgement.

"do i like what this does?"

anything else is irrelevant.

And this.

And various others.

Trust your own taste and have fun.

[whyterabbyt]

One of the “desirable characteristics of such devices (that) are already established” is that they sound better.

Or maybe not.

Feel free to maybe have a third swing at that same post, by the way, you maybe seem kinda fixated on it.

[whyterabbyt]

In which case there isn’t

Maybe. Maybe not.

[Pilonsky]

One of the “desirable characteristics of such devices (that) are already established” is that they sound better.

Or maybe not.

Feel free to maybe have a third swing at that same post, by the way, you maybe seem kinda fixated on it.

Sorry, I found that post particularly inspiring.

[Pilonsky]

In which case there isn’t

Maybe. Maybe not.

When you said “except when there isn't”, I thought you meant there isn’t. Now you’re muddying the waters.

[whyterabbyt]

Maybe. Maybe not.

When you said “except when there isn't”, I thought you meant there isn’t.[/quote]

Well you thought wrong. I said exactly what I meant, and I meant what I said.

Now you’re muddying the waters.

No, the waters were clear, but you had your fingers in your eyes.

[zerocrossing]

Just buy a synth or effects unit because of how it sounds. Who gives a f**k if its ‘analogue’ or not. Nothing going through a digital output, i.e.your computer, is true analogue anyway. It’s all BS. Probably.

Exactly. Analog definitely has characteristics, but some of those characteristics aren’t really all that great. For instance, I love the sound of a tape or drum delay. I’ll never buy a tape or drum delay. I don’t want to deal with the maintenance. I like clock sync. I like to be able to set my “tape age” with a knob and then save a preset.

That said, I once found a demo of one of the newer tape delays where the demonstrator was really pushing it. Lots of overdriving the tape and feedback into self oscillation. Stuff I really love. I instantly thought, “that’s better than my favorite tape delay emulation.” Maybe they’ll get that right at one point, but I don’t think it’s perfect yet. That doesn’t prevent me from using them, nor does it move me to buy the real deal.

I’m mostly a guitar player. I’ve not owned a traditional guitar amp since the early 00s. Even before that I was experimenting with hybrid setups. One of my cooler rigs was a Digitech 2120 into two Peavey KB60s. I say hybrid because it did have a single tube in it. There was also some analog fuzz and overdrive in pedals leading up to it. Now I guess my rig is still hybrid, with a Blackstar HT-5 Duel tube distortion into an AxeFX 3 mk2. It sounds glorious. Does it sound 100% like a tube amp? Probably not, but it still sounds awesome. A tube amp just wouldn’t work in my world, especially now that Covid means my wife and I both work from home. I thought about doing an amp-loadbox setup, but it seemed like I only got a slight sonic advantage and having the AxeFX means I have access to hundreds of amp models and effects.

[Teksonik]

Well the makers of digital plug ins said analog is superior. Otherwise, why would they be trying so hard to accurately model it?

That's easy....because they know that's what some buyers want. You slap "analog" onto anything and some people automatically think that makes it magic because they have bought in to the myth.

[Teksonik]

Somewhere along the line someone said "analog is superior" and a whole bunch of people bought into that theory.
Hence a whole bunch of people have been chasing the elusive and mythical analog magic Unicorn ever since.

Yamaha CS-80 you mean that magic unicorn?

You mean the incredibly limited synth that someone is asking the silly price of $112,000 ?

https://reverb.com/p/yamaha-cs-80-synthesizer-1980

The CS is one of those synths whose value is due to its rarity.

[zerocrossing]

for me, "Virtual Analogs" were a ploy back when they first came out
of course they sometimes could also sound quite analog if tweaked carefully, they mostly were their own thing though, which of course doesn't need to be a bad thing

current "virtual analog" stuff isn't VA for me anymore though, even though it of course technically still is:
my SH-01A, which is digital code in a dedicated hardware box actually is an "analog" synth for me for all intents and purposes, though i have to admit it'd feel a bit stupid to me if i was calling a plugin instrument "an analog synth", no matter how close to a real analog synth it is (even if it happens to surpass the original)
it's all in your (or my head) though

When I had a studio full of “VA” hardware, like a Virus C, it seemed like a virtual hybrid, I guess. It had a ladder filter emulation, but that was definitely an advertising ploy. When I actually got a synth with a clone of a Moog ladder filter, the emulation in the Virus seemed like a joke. Was it a useful filter? Sure, I used it all the time. As I moved away from hardware VA, and towards hardware A/Hybrid, it became clear that the Virus was a DS synth. Digital subtractive. A very different thing than your SH-01A, which is definitely what I consider a VA.

It’s murky, though. What’s Dune? It definitely started off as what I’d consider a DS synth, but when it went to version 3, the inclusion of the analog filter models definitely brought it closer to being a hybrid emulation. Later, Massive X came out and it definitely sounds more like a hardware hybrid than anything else, though it can also sound very digital.

So in the end, all it is are characteristics that lead to different results. An analog emulation or even analog itself isn’t inherently better than digital, just like red isn’t better than blue. If you want an analog character analog is still the best way to get it, but you have to be willing to make concessions. What concessions you’re willing to make are up to you.

[ramseysounds]

Virtual analog emulation comes close to hardware but they are not the same. In a loud busy mix is almost impossible to tell if someone used good analog emulation plugins or real gear.

The only problem with the “you can’t tell the difference in a mix”, or the “average listener can’t tell the difference” logic is that if that is the case, then why use one instrument over another? Why not get a $30 keyboard at Walmart mart and make your tracks with that?

because he means when you compare a hardware analogue piece of kit to a digital emulation of it. But you knew that. And he is 100% correct of course.

Yeah but if you then can’t tell the difference between a virtual analog synth and a Casio in a loud busy mix, then a Casio is just as good as the virtual analog (in a loud busy mix of course).

you're just being an obtuse pratt on purpose now. Pointless thread, like almost all on KVR these days

[Unaspected]

Virtual analog emulation comes close to hardware but they are not the same. In a loud busy mix is almost impossible to tell if someone used good analog emulation plugins or real gear.

The only problem with the “you can’t tell the difference in a mix”, or the “average listener can’t tell the difference” logic is that if that is the case, then why use one instrument over another? Why not get a $30 keyboard at Walmart mart and make your tracks with that?

because he means when you compare a hardware analogue piece of kit to a digital emulation of it. But you knew that. And he is 100% correct of course.

Yeah but if you then can’t tell the difference between a virtual analog synth and a Casio in a loud busy mix, then a Casio is just as good as the virtual analog (in a loud busy mix of course).

you're just being an obtuse pratt on purpose now. Pointless thread, like almost all on KVR these days

[ramseysounds]

you don't agree?

[Unaspected]

you don't agree?

That's Chris Pratt playing the obtuse Andy in Parks and Recreation.

[Pilonsky]

Virtual analog emulation comes close to hardware but they are not the same. In a loud busy mix is almost impossible to tell if someone used good analog emulation plugins or real gear.

The only problem with the “you can’t tell the difference in a mix”, or the “average listener can’t tell the difference” logic is that if that is the case, then why use one instrument over another? Why not get a $30 keyboard at Walmart mart and make your tracks with that?

because he means when you compare a hardware analogue piece of kit to a digital emulation of it. But you knew that. And he is 100% correct of course.

Yeah but if you then can’t tell the difference between a virtual analog synth and a Casio in a loud busy mix, then a Casio is just as good as the virtual analog (in a loud busy mix of course).

you're just being an obtuse pratt on purpose now. Pointless thread, like almost all on KVR these days

This is my second original post on KVR, and my every word has been picked apart and ridiculed. I figure I had the right to defend myself and push back a bit.

It seems to me that you are dishing it out as much as anyone else on here, while simultaneously trying to be the referee. Now you're trying to pretend that you’re above it, after you dished it out.