Is virtual analog an advertising ploy?

[Pilonsky]

Bro, an exception to the rule only reinforces the rule. Finneas is an anomaly, an outlier — that’s why you bring him up. What other chart topping, Grammy winning producer/engineers do you know that use only logic?

The point is that these days he's really not that much of an anomaly. There are lots of big name electronic artists that have famously made a lot of their music ITB.

Skrillex
deadmau5
Eric Prydz
Boris Brejcha
Feed Me

Though... at least some of these have moved over to using some hardware.

Probably much more dance music is made ITB that out of the box, with maybe a few exceptions like techno in Berlin where analog seems a requirement.

No, I was not saying that Finneas is the only successful musician that is all in the box. That would be ridiculous! There are tons of people that work in the box only. A lot of the lo fi house stuff I listen to while writing is made all ITB. And I like that stuff. Im not saying that at all. I do not think software or ITB is limiting in any way.

My post was specifically about analog modeled plug ins versus the hardware they are said to emulate. It was that specifically. It wasn't digital versus analog. Or in the box versus hardware only.

The exception to the rule conversation was about Grammy winners that use ONLY logic. No third party plug ins. For some reason that example of Finneas using only logic comes up often in You Tube video. Thats the only way Im familiar with him. I down follow him either.

The only other person that Ive heard that made it using logic only was disclosure. I remember the guy saying how they sold all these records and got all these awards on their first album using logic only.

Anyway thats what I was saying is the anomaly. Selling a lot or records and/or winning a grammy using logic ONLY.

By the way, Finneas records piano, guitar, his sister singing, etc. . . so he's not really all in the box or using logic only. He's using instruments, microphones, he's got a singer . . . So its more accurate to say he's mixing in the box, with only logic plug ins. But he's using instruments.

[_leras]

By the way, Finneas records piano, guitar, his sister singing, etc. . . so he's not really all in the box or using logic only. He's using instruments, microphones, he's got a singer . . . So its more accurate to say he's mixing in the box, with only logic plug ins. But he's using instruments.

Even if he is not using UAD plug ins - his mixing engineer is...

https://www.uaudio.com/blog/helping-bil ... raft-hits/

[Pilonsky]

By the way, Finneas records piano, guitar, his sister singing, etc. . . so he's not really all in the box or using logic only. He's using instruments, microphones, he's got a singer . . . So its more accurate to say he's mixing in the box, with only logic plug ins. But he's using instruments.

Even if he is not using UAD plug ins - his mixing engineer is...

https://www.uaudio.com/blog/helping-bil ... raft-hits/

Oh boy!! I was not the one who brought up Finneas!! Ive only seen a ten minute video of him on YouTube. The legend of Finneas also pops up all over Youtube comments. He's kind of a YouTube legend for winning a grammy using only logic. He's THE example now when you wanna argue that it talent not the equipment. Ive seen it multiple times. Logic even comes with a Finneas/Billy Eilish project to prove the point.

I just got sucked into it. I was just replying to someone who kept using the example of Finneas as, the talented guy with basic equipment making it big, to make the point that I should not worry about equipment because its not the tool not but he who wields it.

[noiseboyuk]

Even if he is not using UAD plug ins - his mixing engineer is...

https://www.uaudio.com/blog/helping-bil ... raft-hits/

And his mastering engineer!

Good interview that. Even if it is essentially a UAD puff piece, what he says makes sense.

The reason we're discussing Finneas is that a) he's extremely good; b) he's extremely successful and c) he's open about his techniques and strips back all the mystery. (He and Billie also seem like really nice people and have a brilliant brother / sister relationship, so that's kinda cool too).

I don't even know what we're discussing now to be honest. We seem to have agreed you can have a hit with any DAW using only ITB plugins, and that producers at the top of their game routinely work this way.

We also seem to agree on is that selling plugins at authentic emulations of old gear will likely produce false expectations. For the OP, I think that's because they emulations aren't good enough. For me - and it looks like a lot of others - it's because taking a piece of old hardware in isolation is unlikely to make a big difference whether its modelled as software or the real thing.

Did I miss anything?

[BONES]

Ok so let me ask you this: why do you have an bx_oberhausen and Korg's ARP Odyssey? And what was you’re thought process for buying them over something else?

I love the sound of SEM and Odyssey. They are so much more than the sum of their parts. But I bought them because they were cheap - $69 intro price for Odyssey and $39, less my $25 loyalty voucher for bx_oberhausen.

Surely I can’t buy everything. So how do I choose a better synth over an inferior one? Or is there even such a thing? How do you choose one thing over another? Why did you choose say the ARP Odyssey over something else?

The biggest part of the appeal of an emulation for me is its simplicity. I choose synths that are simpler and, therefore, faster/easier to work with. If you look at my signature, you'll see mostly synths that show all their major parameters on a single page. ANA, Equator and Thorn are far and away the most complicated synths I use but even they manage to get most things on a single page. I also have DUNE, Hive and PhasePlant but I rarely use them, they are too much faffing about.

As a rule, I won't pay more than $100 for a plugin so anything more expensive than that is instantly ruled out until it comes on sale. So a lot of my purchases are as a result of something I've had my eye on being on sale. I waited almost a year for bx_oberhausen to go on sale. I bought Union for $15, JP6K is always $29, I think I paid $69 for ANA-2,TRK-01 Bass is free (and I love working with it), same for GR-8, and I donated $25 each for Invader and MonoFury. (My first ever brand new synth was a Mono/Poly, back in 1982.) I got Model 84 and Martinic AX-73 when they had their launch sales, I got the RePros when U-He had a half-price sale though NI and I get Synapse stuff for free because I've been a beta-tester for them for 20-odd years and I've done graphics work for them over that time. I paid $99 for Hexeract, too, but I got Concept when they had a launch sale for v2 and it was $69. I bought Super 8 when it was on sale at NI, I think it was around $30 after I used a voucher. I own a lot of Ujam plugins, some I got for free, the rest I bought when they were on sale, mostly for $59 or $69. I've also got a lot of Heavyocity Kontakt libraries, all bought when they were on sale for $69 or less. most recently, I got Arturia V Collection for $99, which was just too cheap to pass up.

The only synth I feel I've paid over the odds for is Vacuum Pro because I ran out of patience waiting for a really good sale price and got it when it was $99. Three weeks later it was $15. I didn't even pay anywhere near full price for Studio One Pro, I bought it from someone here for $175.

These days I don't feel like I need anything more so something will have to be really impressive, or incredibly cheap (like the Arturia Collection), to get me to give it a go. I still download a fair few demos but I hardly buy anything these days. I feel like I have a variety and depth of tools now that I won't get bored or run out of things to use for a good, long while.

“the rule is - work hard and be bloody talented”? That’s just a platitude. What’s the point in even saying it?
And “The limiting factor, 999 times out of 1000, is not the kit, it’s the person.” Another platitude!
“and the basics still apply on the ears being more important than the kit.” Come on! Not again.

People keep repeating this stuff because it's all true. Of course, none of it guarantees success, there are countless thousands of hugely talented people who will never be successful for an equal number of different reasons. But I'd be very surprised if there were any successful people who didn't meet the criteria of a good ear, more talent than most and a willingness to put in a lot of hard work.

[whyterabbyt]

Did I miss anything?

nope.

[Unaspected]

Did I miss anything?

nope.

[sQeetz]

analog... schmanalog... does it sound nice? if yes: potential buy. simple as that.

[donkey tugger]

Did I miss anything?

nope.

The resistible force vs the moveable object.

[vurt]

i sensed a disturbance in the force, and knew bones had found the thread.

[donkey tugger]

i sensed a disturbance in the farce, and knew bones had found the thread.

Better.

[vurt]

fair.

[Unaspected]

i sensed a disturbance in the force, and knew bones had found the thread.

You're muddling up your universes.

[Pilonsky]

“the rule is - work hard and be bloody talented”? That’s just a platitude. What’s the point in even saying it?

And “The limiting factor, 999 times out of 1000, is not the kit, it’s the person.” Another platitude!

“and the basics still apply on the ears being more important than the kit.” Come on! Not again.

What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. The early bird gets the per worm. Hard work pays off. Why put off till tomorrow what you can do today. If it sounds good it is good. It’s it’s not the tool but who wields it. So on and so forth.

I’m not looking for self help or new age philosophy.

They are cliches because - another cliche - they are true. Avoiding those basic truths leads to displacement activities like GAS and eternal quests for that 0.00001% sonic difference that somehow makes all the difference.

It never does.

Just put in the hours.

I will not avoid basic truths. I will put in the hours. And I will buy The Secret. Thank you Sensei.

[vurt]

i sensed a disturbance in the force, and knew bones had found the thread.

You're muddling up your universes.

you try traveling the multiverse for millennia, it's bloody confusing.