Headwrecking stuff

[colystuart]

Hi,i have been dabbing away at producing for a few years,but im one of these that never gets anything finished.
anyway,one of my problems is which way is best syndrome
i used ti think when i started when im making a track i was supposed to have it left at around -6db when finished mixing,then its ready for mastering stage.
Then i watched videos on k system which messed with my head for a while.
My latest headwrecker is i looked into isound reference,and it calibrates my headphones. i have AKG 712.
When they get calibrated i then have to boost the bass a lot on kick and bass .
Is producing on headphones an absolute waste of time then unless you are using something like reference?
oh and another headwrecker was a successful producer was starting of his tracks with kick just below 0db on the master.
He was using oxford inflator and a limiter on the master. He didnt need to master the track then.
Im producing dance music by the way.

[andymcbain]

Just wrote a very long reply and lost it...

The gist of it was, there are far less rules to making a track than the internet would have you believe. Producers work in all sorts of different ways... what matters is the end result. You need to find a method that works for you, which usually involves years of trial and error.

To answer your headphone question though, yeah it's often considered easier to do most of your mixing on a "flat" reference system - and that's what Sound ID is attempting to do with your AKG headphones. You can mix and produce on anything though, as long as you know how to get good results using it.

My advice would be keep your methods simple for now (like leaving your master channel alone) and master the basics - choosing good sounds, basic EQ, compression, reverb etc. Do this while comparing your tracks to similar sounding, well produced tracks that you KNOW sound good on the dancefloor, in the car, on headphones etc etc. Load them into a plugin like Metric A/B, match the levels and just listen while you tweak your mix. It'll be soul destroying at first, but you'll learn a lot. The goal is to get your tracks sounding as close to a finished product as you can without needing a mastering engineer to do anything fancy with them. Those AKG headphones are decent and should let you hear what you're doing. Try and get tracks finished, as that's a skill in itself. And please ignore that -6 headroom rule... it really doesn't make much sense.

Best of luck!

[colystuart]

Hi thanks for the reply.
The headphone thing really through me off.They sound so different making a track without the sound id calibration,which makes me think unless i use sound id its a waste of time,am i not correct in saying that?

[andymcbain]

Hi thanks for the reply.
The headphone thing really through me off.They sound so different making a track without the sound id calibration,which makes me think unless i use sound id its a waste of time,am i not correct in saying that?

Yes and no I guess - even a mix that sounds good in your AKGs with Sound ID won't necessarily translate well to a club sound system. That's where reference tracks and learning to A/B comes in. A flatter frequency response should generally help you to hear what you're doing, though. I had an earlier version of Sound ID and it worked well with my Sennheiser HD650s.

[Unaspected]

Everyone develops their own workflow for the required task.

A/B-ing with as many systems as makes sense. I really dislike mixing using headphones or trusting systems that augment the frequency response of my monitors but I will double check the sub end in headphones and car before releasing any audio products. Eventually, you get a feeling for it without really needing to do the double checking - just as some wonder how older engineers are able to mix the high end when they might not hear it so clearly. It just kinda happens.

Sending to a friend with a studio so they can give feedback is also quite helpful. A second pair of ears is invaluable.

[legendCNCD]

VSX has helped in this tremendously. I dont even have my monitor speakers anymore here online...

[enroe]

Is producing on headphones an absolute waste of time then,
unless you are using something like reference?

The answer is: YES!

Neither the panorama nor the frequency divisions can be judged under the
headphones. That's why the headphones are not a good idea. Even with a
reference track, it's difficult!

My recommendation: Use small monitor boxes and produce and listen at
a low volume.

[andymcbain]

Is producing on headphones an absolute waste of time then,
unless you are using something like reference?

The answer is: YES!

Neither the panorama nor the frequency divisions can be judged under the
headphones. That's why the headphones are not a good idea. Even with a
reference track, it's difficult!

My recommendation: Use small monitor boxes and produce and listen at
a low volume.

Whether it's good idea to mix / produce on headphones at all is a different topic Personally I'd disagree, but it is controversial... Sound on Sound cover it well in this article https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... headphones

What the OP means in this case is, the corrective EQ profile from the Sound ID Reference plugin is changing the sound of their headphones to such an extent, they're thinking the headphones may be useless without it.

[melomood]

I would advise against it,not only for mixing purposes but just the damn...whatever you want to call it...fatigue of having those damn cans on your ears for hours

[Hink]

I find the three points of using monitors to be an essential part of spacial mixing for me. Headphones do have their place as well but at least for me the fact that headphones are not a triangle like monitors are, it's just too limiting when defining stereo imaging but still essential to check the spacial mix in headphones as well. I also mix in mono though, there is where I find that headphones are great for me.

[imrae]

You need to be familiar with how music sounds on your headphones or other monitors. If you're using a correction curve it should not only be there when mixing.

[colystuart]

thanks for all replies.
so if im making a track,and i have a reference track on one of the tracks in cubase,i should be listening to how that track sounds on headphones with sonarworks headphone calibration?

[colystuart]

,i just installed reference 4 headphone edition,as my trial for 5 ran out
I have loaded the preset for my headphones.
my query is,there is a blue button bottom left of reference interface
sonarworks sr enabled or disabled.
I would have thought that when its enabled i will hear what the headphones sound like when calibrated and when i disable i will hear what the headphones sound like if i didnt have reference.
it sounds different when disabled from when its enabled,but disabled dosent sound like what it sounds like if i bypass reference in cubase insert slot(which is what it sounds like before i installed reference.
hope this makes sense.

[andymcbain]

thanks for all replies.
so if im making a track,and i have a reference track on one of the tracks in cubase,i should be listening to how that track sounds on headphones with sonarworks headphone calibration?

Yup, in theory you have a flatter sounding system with Sonarworks enabled. So now it's a case of getting to know how your reference tracks sound through it. Make sure you adjust the volume of the reference track to match your mix (Metric A/B does a good job of this)

,i just installed reference 4 headphone edition,as my trial for 5 ran out
I have loaded the preset for my headphones.
my query is,there is a blue button bottom left of reference interface
sonarworks sr enabled or disabled.
I would have thought that when its enabled i will hear what the headphones sound like when calibrated and when i disable i will hear what the headphones sound like if i didnt have reference.
it sounds different when disabled from when its enabled,but disabled dosent sound like what it sounds like if i bypass reference in cubase insert slot(which is what it sounds like before i installed reference.
hope this makes sense.

Hard to know what the issue is without seeing the plugin (maybe take a before and after screenshot?) Maybe look into installing Systemwide so you can use the plugin outside of Cubase, or set it up in the Cubase control room.