Softube Model 82

[sQeetz]

I know some people don't agree with me on this, but my main complaints about Softube synths is that they often lack effects.

On the plus side: they can't drown the presets in reverb and delay to make them sound fuller that way.

[chk071]

I totally like it when a plugin doesn't come with bad or mediocre effects. Because, that's the case with 99% of soft synths out there.

Apart from the quality, it's also quite inflexible. What if I want to use the same delay or reverb I used on a synth on multiple tracks?

[briefcasemanx]

I like bad or mediocre effects, as long as it's unique dsp and not "off the shelf" algorithms. If it's weird or quirky and ad hoc it can define the sound of a synth somewhat.

[chk071]

In the worst case, it can make everything sound worse, EVEN if the synth itself sounds good.

I also can't quite believe that you LIKE bad or mediocre effects. You wouldn't exchange those with great effects if you could? It's not like developers bake them in so that they harmonize the best with the synth. It's the best they can do, in terms of fx development.

A good example is Synapse's Obsession. It has a great reverb, while in former Synapse synths, the reverbs always sounded kinda meh to me. AFAIK, the algorithm of the one in Obsession is from Mirko Ruta. So, they went from "meh" reverbs to a really good sounding one.

[aMUSEd]

In the worst case, it can make everything sound worse, EVEN if the synth itself sounds good.

I also can't quite believe that you LIKE bad or mediocre effects. You wouldn't exchange those with great effects if you could? It's not like developers bake them in so that they harmonize the best with the synth. It's the best they can do, in terms of fx development.

A good example is Synapse's Obsession. It has a great reverb, while in former Synapse synths, the reverbs always sounded kinda meh to me. AFAIK, the algorithm of the one in Obsession is from Mirko Ruta. So, they went from "meh" reverbs to a really good sounding one.

Same with Serum, even the improved one still sounds bad. On the other hand Spire has a reverb that would be great as an effect on its own

[chk071]

Yes, Spire is that 1% synth which has great onboard fx. The shaping/saturation section sounds great, the phaser and chorus sound great, as do the reverb, and delay. Never heard anything better in other synths. There are still external fx which do sound better though. But, for internal fx, they're great.

[nirm123]

Many synths have great onboard FX effects: Massive X, Zebra, Rapid, Generate just to name a few.
If you think about it, it doesn't make any sense onboard FX effects will be of a lesser quality, and they are not (the quality is varied, but it's true for standalone FX effects as well).

[chk071]

If you think about it, it doesn't make any sense onboard FX effects will be of a lesser quality

It doesn't have to be, theoretically. It is though, practically.

And, Massive X is no exception. Dunno about the others you mentioned, but, Zebra CM didn't struck me as having too great onboard fx either.

and they are not

Yes they are.

(the quality is varied, but it's true for standalone FX effects as well).

Of course, there's also shit standalone effects. But, there are some absolutely gems as well, which you won't find onboard on soft synths.

To name a few: NI Replika XT, Eventide Blackhole, Ultrareverb, Exponential Audio R2/R4, NI Raum, Softube Fix Phaser, NI Dirt etc.

I'd be glad if soft synths had such great onboard fx. Then I wouldn't have to justify the amount of money I spend on good outboard stuff anymore.

[foosnark]

TAL bassline 101 and lush-101 are very different experiences to me. I like both. TAL is better for making something from scratch to purpose. Lush-101 has some cool and clever presets.

Heh, I never use presets in LuSH-101, I always start from scratch. I guess I'll give the TAL one a try and see what impression I get.

[chk071]

If you want to hear some characterstic quality of some of the fx they put on soft synths, try Largo's onboard fx. Absolutely fkn horrible. And, I read it's actually even better than the Blofeld's, which have to be a total catastrophy then.

I really like those synths, but, the fx is worst of the worse. The ones on V-Station are total crap as well.

Not that I expect them to have great onboard fx, as I mentioned. The only soft synth with really good fx from the ones I ever tried is Spire. That's why I always asked them to make a fx version of Spire. But, I understand that stuff like that is low priority. After all, they want you to use the synth, right?

[nirm123]

If you want to hear some characterstic quality of some of the fx they put on soft synths, try Largo's onboard fx. Absolutely fkn horrible. And, I read it's actually even better than the Blofeld's, which have to be a total catastrophy then.

I really like those synths, but, the fx is worst of the worse. The ones on V-Station are total crap as well.

Not that I expect them to have great onboard fx, as I mentioned. The only soft synth with really good fx from the ones I ever tried is Spire. That's why I always asked them to make a fx version of Spire. But, I understand that stuff like that is low priority. After all, they want you to use the synth, right?

and...you're obviously wrong again, many other synths have just as good or even better effects than Spire (U-he synths usually have great effects, sometimes they're so good that they're creating dedicated FX plugins out of them like colour copy which is the best sounding delay I've ever heard).

But you're using generalizations very often, which explains why you're quite wrong...very often as well.

[PAK]

Diva is not a magic wand that can automatically sound just like stand alone, focused emulations. You may not like the sounds, but that only means Diva is a viable replacement for people who also don’t like the sounds of the 101 enough to get a specific emulation.

It depends. For example the present DCO in Diva doesn't cover all of the Juno 106, and the chorus is different. But, in the case of the SH-101, it covers the output pretty well. I recreated a bunch of sounds in TAL and Roland's emulations, at the time, to test this. By "pretty well" I mean you either couldn't tell them apart or there was no significant difference (meaning beyond stuff like minor keytrack curve variation etc.. )

It's to the point where, if you picked a "famous" SH-101 sound, I'm confident the chances are fairly high Diva will often copy it better than the dedicated emulation because of its additional sound-shaping options. Whilst Diva is well regarded most users don't employ its advanced features much (adding, multiplying etc). So its ability to mimic is actually more frequently under-estimated rather than the opposite..

What it doesn't do is limit the controls within the 101's ranges, meaning it should be a bit easier to dial in sounds on the dedicated emulation. Plus, if they've modelled things well enough, the interaction of the controls should behave more like a 101 in usage. So it's not like there's no place for dedicated emulations, even assuming Diva can cover stuff. But it does mean, depending on how much effort you put in, you're not going to be getting a whole lot that synths like Diva haven't been able to do for the best part of a decade..

[chk071]

If you want to hear some characterstic quality of some of the fx they put on soft synths, try Largo's onboard fx. Absolutely fkn horrible. And, I read it's actually even better than the Blofeld's, which have to be a total catastrophy then.

I really like those synths, but, the fx is worst of the worse. The ones on V-Station are total crap as well.

Not that I expect them to have great onboard fx, as I mentioned. The only soft synth with really good fx from the ones I ever tried is Spire. That's why I always asked them to make a fx version of Spire. But, I understand that stuff like that is low priority. After all, they want you to use the synth, right?

and...you're obviously wrong again, many other synths have just as good or even better effects than Spire (U-he synths usually have great effects, sometimes they're so good that they're creating dedicated FX plugins out of them like colour copy which is the best sounding delay I've ever heard).

But you're using generalizations very often, which explains why you're quite wrong...very often as well.

Why thank you.

I'm speaking about my experiences, nothing else.

[zerocrossing]

If you want to hear some characterstic quality of some of the fx they put on soft synths, try Largo's onboard fx. Absolutely fkn horrible. And, I read it's actually even better than the Blofeld's, which have to be a total catastrophy then.

I really like those synths, but, the fx is worst of the worse. The ones on V-Station are total crap as well.

Not that I expect them to have great onboard fx, as I mentioned. The only soft synth with really good fx from the ones I ever tried is Spire. That's why I always asked them to make a fx version of Spire. But, I understand that stuff like that is low priority. After all, they want you to use the synth, right?

I think a lot of developers are still worried that they’ll lose sales when people see the CPU hit of good quality effects. I don’t understand why they don’t just have a preference that lets those who want the quality to get it.

[chk071]

I think a lot of developers are still worried that they’ll lose sales when people see the CPU hit of good quality effects.

Actually, you could have a good point with that. Many of the more current high quality external fx use a lot of CPU.