REVERBs - Insert vs. Send - is it possible to get the same sound?

[CrystalWizard]

...Use your ears. And use your brain too.

Now you're asking a lot. Not just in audio either.

[CrystalWizard]

And on topic: there are times where i use reverb as an insert. Either for a completely different "acoustic space" or for a certain effect. Generally i use a few reverbs as sends though.

[jamcat]

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INSERTS level = 1 then you get 0.63 track and 0.37 reverb about 2 to 1 ratio
SENDS you get track 1.0 + 0.37 reverb, so more like 3 to 1 ratio - so less reverb

I thought it may be nice if DAWs had an option to automatically lower the dry signal on the sending track the same amount sends are turned up because of this (so dry/wet and send behaviour would be similar), would it make sense?

No, that doesn’t makes sense. Because you can send to multiple aux FXs. You don’t want your dry signal messed with just because you’re putting a touch of reverb on it.

From what you’re describing, what you really want is an insert with a wet/dry mix, not a send at all.

No I do think it could be implemented as he is envisioning it. The track fader that would change it's volume in relationship would be the 'send' track + the dry track, so that it all maintains sort of unity gain up until 50/50 proportions.. then after that the dry track would have to get progressively less in volume.

Even with multiple tracks this would still be able to make some sense with some clever math behind the scenes to balance it all out. Basically his idea is a novel user interface solution but it may not be easy to implement. The only reason we have the traditional pre/post send system, at least I imagine so, is due to it being the system of choice in the analogue domain as it's the easiest to implement. In a DAW it should be possible to create more intuitive and elaborate systems though.

.. granted, I have no idea if I personally could ever get used to anything different as I've always used sends the way they are for more than 30 years.

Yeah, no. I wouldn't want any part of this newfangled Rube Goldberg Console. It would be way too difficult to get the results you want, especially when you are sending the audio out to multiple aux channels. Suddenly you're now trying to solve the 3 body problem every time you make an adjustment anywhere.

[_leras]

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INSERTS level = 1 then you get 0.63 track and 0.37 reverb about 2 to 1 ratio
SENDS you get track 1.0 + 0.37 reverb, so more like 3 to 1 ratio - so less reverb

I thought it may be nice if DAWs had an option to automatically lower the dry signal on the sending track the same amount sends are turned up because of this (so dry/wet and send behaviour would be similar), would it make sense?

And like Jamcat says, you might have multiple send buses so how do you know which send should affect the channel level.

I also think the effects it would make sense on would be more likely used as an insert where you might change the volumes i.e. compressor, eq.

For me, when I do a send it's either for something additive like a delay or reverb where I want the original to generally keep it's volume, or the totally different use case of a parallel channel where I probably sent the full signal, process then use the fader to blend.

Sometimes I just cheat, duplicate a channel, cut out the bits I don't want to effect and add something as an insert. Helpful for throws and both tracks get their own volume to blend.

[imrae]

This send behaviour should be possible to put together in REAPER as needed:
- Insert a multi-channel panner plugin which pans the signal between channels 1-2 and 3-4
- Set up the channel I/O to send 1-2 to master (this is default anyway) and 3-4 to appropriate send.
- Assign a track control to the panner setting.

Then the knob doesn't appear as a normal send, but quite close by - and this makes it easy to distinguish from a normal send. The panner could be dragged around in the FX chain to control where this split happens. I think that largely solves the problem of confusion and scaling to different situations?

I've had a quick look in the JS plugins and such a multi-channel panner doesn't seem to exist - but it can be done by linking together two mono panners or by writing a simple JS plugin.

Personally I am quite happy with the usual send behaviour for reverb, but wonder if such a setup could be nice for parallel compression busses to compensate the "louder = better" problem.