Spire - SPF, SPF2, SBF - which, what now?, convert? or not? or?

[MegaPixel]

Hi,

I just bought some presets for spire and started wondering...

I have a lot of loose SPF files of which they are tiny in file size, but now I seem to be getting SPF2 files which are a lot bigger.

An SPF is typically around 3.5kb where as an SPF2 is typically around 110kb...
So the questions started rolling in...

And here is where I though I would ask the community for a bit of advice. some

Q1. As I understand it, SPF2 is the new format (correct?)

Q2. Is there a tool to bulk convert SPF to SPF2?
Or is there documentation somewhere that I can work out how to build a 3rd party tool to do this and process my entire library?

Q3. Is there a tool (not spire) to create an SBF, so I can bulk convert folders of SPFs to SBF?
Or again is there documentation somewhere that I can work out how to build a tool to do this?

Q4. Are SBF (spire banks capable of handling SPF2 data?) or do I need to do some kind of extraction and conversion on them also? Extract to single spf's and then convert to spf2s and then back to SBF or is there a update tool for SBF (with spf's in) to SBF (with spf2's in), or is SBF2 on the way? Or is it better to convert banks to loose SPF2 files?

Q5. Is SPF2 worth it? As SPF works just fine?
Some of the purchases I just made have both SPF and SPF2 zip files, is there a point in using the 10mb zip of SPF2s vs the 450kb zip of SPFs?

Thanks

[Sindikhate]

BUMP

[chk071]

I don't really have an answer to any of this, but, you might (or might not) find some answers here: https://reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/spire ... e-base/194

Actually, I guess this at least answers question #2: https://reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/spire ... e-base/502

[vega555]

Q1. As I understand it, SPF2 is the new format (correct?)

A1:
That's correct. SPF2 files carry much more information which gives expanded opportunities for working with the new preset manager. It also allows you to create soundbanks with no limitation in preset amounts to build up your library.

Q2. Is there a tool to bulk convert SPF to SPF2?

A2:
1. You can switch on the option to "convert legacy preset/soundbank on import
2. You can convert them manually: https://www.reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/s ... e-base/508

Q3. Is there a tool (not spire) to create an SBF, so I can bulk convert folders of SPFs to SBF?

A3:
The only tool is Spire. Please note that multiselection is available.

Q4. Are SBF (spire banks capable of handling SPF2 data?) or do I need to do some kind of extraction and conversion on them also? Extract to single spf's and then convert to spf2s and then back to SBF or is there a update tool for SBF (with spf's in) to SBF (with spf2's in), or is SBF2 on the way? Or is it better to convert banks to loose SPF2 files?

A4:
SPF2 presets can't be contained in the SBF file. However, you can convert an SBF to the folder with SPF2 presets: https://www.reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/s ... e-base/502

Q5.Is SPF2 worth it? As SPF works just fine?
Some of the purchases I just made have both SPF and SPF2 zip files, is there a point in using the 10mb zip of SPF2s vs the 450kb zip of SPFs?

A5:
Definitely worth it. The file size had to be increased due to the amount of information carried. Perhaps in the future, we will expand the possibilities of the new format.

Thanks.

[MegaPixel]

Q1. As I understand it, SPF2 is the new format (correct?)

A1:
That's correct. SPF2 files carry much more information which gives expanded opportunities for working with the new preset manager. It also allows you to create soundbanks with no limitation in preset amounts to build up your library.

Q2. Is there a tool to bulk convert SPF to SPF2?

A2:
1. You can switch on the option to "convert legacy preset/soundbank on import
2. You can convert them manually: https://www.reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/s ... e-base/508

Q3. Is there a tool (not spire) to create an SBF, so I can bulk convert folders of SPFs to SBF?

A3:
The only tool is Spire. Please note that multiselection is available.

Q4. Are SBF (spire banks capable of handling SPF2 data?) or do I need to do some kind of extraction and conversion on them also? Extract to single spf's and then convert to spf2s and then back to SBF or is there a update tool for SBF (with spf's in) to SBF (with spf2's in), or is SBF2 on the way? Or is it better to convert banks to loose SPF2 files?

A4:
SPF2 presets can't be contained in the SBF file. However, you can convert an SBF to the folder with SPF2 presets: https://www.reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/s ... e-base/502

Q5.Is SPF2 worth it? As SPF works just fine?
Some of the purchases I just made have both SPF and SPF2 zip files, is there a point in using the 10mb zip of SPF2s vs the 450kb zip of SPFs?

A5:
Definitely worth it. The file size had to be increased due to the amount of information carried. Perhaps in the future, we will expand the possibilities of the new format.

Thanks.

Thanks for the info...

2 more questions

Q1. can Spire do a bulk conver bank / all loose presets to SPF2?

Q2. Are you going to impelement banks which can take SPF2 to SBF2???

Thanks

[vega555]

1. If the presets were already imported you can only convert them manually:
https://www.reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/s ... e-base/508
Alternatively, you can switch on the automatic conversion and all presets will be converted to SPF2 upon import:


2. The SWZIP format was created for this, SBF2 is not planned.

[Chalisque]

As for the difference, spf is a binary format, whereas spf2 is json, which is readable text, which makes it far easier to write programs in e.g. python which manipulate them. One example that comes to mind, when studying patches from e.g. preset packs, is a spf2 diff program which looks at two separate spf2 files and determines which parameters are different.

Given information on the binary format of .spf it would likely be easy to write a converter. Without details from Reveal that would entail reverse engineering the old format, and I imagine most users would rather spend that time making tunes.

Personally I wish more synths would use text formats like json, so spf2 gets applause from me.

[MegaPixel]

As for the difference, spf is a binary format, whereas spf2 is json, which is readable text, which makes it far easier to write programs in e.g. python which manipulate them. One example that comes to mind, when studying patches from e.g. preset packs, is a spf2 diff program which looks at two separate spf2 files and determines which parameters are different.

Given information on the binary format of .spf it would likely be easy to write a converter. Without details from Reveal that would entail reverse engineering the old format, and I imagine most users would rather spend that time making tunes.

Personally I wish more synths would use text formats like json, so spf2 gets applause from me.

RE: Personally I wish more synths would use text formats like json
Same , u-he uses /r/n a newline format of text file which I've built programs to parse and categories presets/patches. Omnisphere uses xml with some kind of embedded data in the file and then appended to some kind of db file like it's a game engine or something (not good), so there are markers for flagging the start and end points of these sections. But yeah, really wish presets were pure json or xml, if they need to have a wav/aif/*.* file then read it from a path (and in serum's case it needs to have an automatic file search for when you move wav table files around to clean up directory structures, but it doesn't (typical))...

RE: SPF2 being JSON
I didn't know that, I've never actually opened one in my dev tools, now that I do I might write a program to check for duplicate presets/patches within a certain tolerance range on values within them to eliminate same sounding presets/patches.

That being said, I'm kind of really getting on well with Bitwig's Polysynth, Rapid and PhasePlant at the moment, coming back to Spire's UI and limits is painful after using them, so maybe not...

[NatLife]

I tried all this ways but its not worked for me. I started to create Spire library in old version and continue in new, and I did it all on Mac, now I sent this presets to my working PC, and the new Spire not see 4 presets, old Spire can't see new format presets, and the new Spire see 7 old presets but can't covert it, what to do?

[MegaPixel]

I tried all this ways but its not worked for me. I started to create Spire library in old version and continue in new, and I did it all on Mac, now I sent this presets to my working PC, and the new Spire not see 4 presets, old Spire can't see new format presets, and the new Spire see 7 old presets but can't covert it, what to do?

Not sure if this will help you, but spire can't handle certain characters like / ? etc (not quite sure which ones).

If your trying to convert a bank to spf2 you can try re-naming the preset and saving it and try again, you can also multi select holding either CTRL or SHIFT and you have export, save or move buttons in the bottom in the preset browser where you can copy them to a folder from the bank which will do the conversion.

For individual spf files you should be able to do the same as the banks, just watch out for those presets with special characters in their file names. But now you can rename the file and re-scan library. If you have lot like this use a tool called "Aren" (pc), which you can drop all the files in and remove all special characters or replace them with something else etc in 1 go. This will also work with import also but will stop spire from doing the conversion / import when it tries to load a file with character it doesn't like in.


It's been a while since I tried all this, but that's what I can remember...


Hope that helps.

[vega555]

I tried all this ways but its not worked for me. I started to create Spire library in old version and continue in new, and I did it all on Mac, now I sent this presets to my working PC, and the new Spire not see 4 presets, old Spire can't see new format presets, and the new Spire see 7 old presets but can't covert it, what to do?

Hi!

You can send the presets to support@reveal-sound.com and we will find the solution.

[NatLife]

Thank you for support guys, I resolved it with some "stump deck" and released the bank finally wooh, here is it btw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs5-HGH8j-U