CLAP... thoughts?

[vurt]

I thought this would be appropriate.

Source

please read thread before posting.

[MirkoVanHauten]

...and it has been discussed in I think multiple of these threads already

edit: vurt was faster

[jamcat]

There is close to zero percent likelihood that T-RackS will support CLAP in the next 10 years, if at all.

You cannot know that for sure with any dose of certainty.

I laid out how long it takes IK to release new platform support based on historical evidence. I said "close to zero" to cover the small bit of uncertainty on the specific timeframe.

And IK is just one developer. There are many with similar track records.

The point I am illustrating is that there are many major developers who are very slow moving, and CLAP fanatics will be waiting years, at least, to see them put resources into developing for yet another platform. There is no incentive whatsoever for a developers to divert resources to CLAP, and the CLAP architects have no plan to create an incentive.

Developers supported 64-bit because 32-bit systems' marketshare disappeared over many years. They eventually got onboard with VST3 because Steinberg actively sunset VST2. They're picking up Apple Silicon support because Apple is phasing out Intel-based systems. They support AU and AAX because Logic and Pro Tools only support their own proprietary formats. There are real market forces at work behind every move.

But what incentive does CLAP have for adoption?
There are no hosts that are CLAP only, nor will there be.
Bitwig's not going to put their money where their mouth is and drop VST support in favour of CLAP. They lack confidence in their market position to do that. u-he's not going to drop VST and AU support and cut themselves off from 99% of the market. So CLAP will be like MAS. One host will run it, but also runs other formats, giving no one any real reason to invest in supporting it. How many plugins give a MAS option?

Unless and until Bitwig drops VST and goes CLAP only, the way Logic dropped VST and went AU only, CLAP will never be more than a platform for tinkerers.

or it will become as ubiquitous as the VST, AU, etc formats. why are you so worked up about this??

I just told you why that’s not going to happen. It takes real money to develop for another platform. There has to be a real profit incentive to spend that money. Not supporting CLAP will cost developers exactly 0% of the market share.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Just don't engage with Jamcat. He's not trying to have a serious conversation and seems more interested in pissing in everyone's Cheerio's.

If Clap fails, I don't think it will, then it will likely fail because the market doesn't see a place for it. The market here being both developers and end-users. I personally think it will be successful. If not, that's no skin off my ass either.

No one's being forced into anything, and that's quite clear. Comments like "being forced" and "Zero percent chance" are just Jamcat talking out his ass and are just cynical attempts at trolling. Clearly not someone who wants to engage in a serious discussion or who can be swayed.

[vurt]

you mean why you think it wont happen.
none of us "knows" either way.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I thought this would be appropriate.

Source

please read thread before posting.

I'll save Urs the trouble of re-posting this.

Minus927.jpg

[fisherKing]

Just don't engage with Jamcat. He's not trying to have a serious conversation and seems more interested in pissing in everyone's Cheerio's.

am good here, then, as i've already put almond milk in my cheerios....

[PieBerger]

Just don't engage with Jamcat. He's not trying to have a serious conversation and seems more interested in pissing in everyone's Cheerio's.

If Clap fails, I don't think it will, then it will likely fail because the market doesn't see a place for it. The market here being both developers and end-users. I personally think it will be successful. If not, that's no skin off my ass either.

No one's being forced into anything, and that's quite clear. Comments like "being forced" and "Zero percent chance" are just Jamcat talking out his ass and are just cynical attempts at trolling. Clearly not someone who wants to engage in a serious discussion or who can be swayed.

+1, they are the ramblings of someone who is using a dinoDAW (see what I did there) and is wasting time being contrary on the internet instead of playing around with the new betas, to experience the benefits for themselves first hand.

[vurt]

I thought this would be appropriate.

Source

please read thread before posting.

I'll save Urs the trouble of re-posting this.

Minus927.jpg

[noiseboyuk]

Double post

[dayjob]

Why CLAP? Here's a story...

Here's another story...

I use multiple T-RackS plugins on every single song I make.

Mainstream 64-bit operating systems from Microsoft and Apple became available in 2007. T-RackS didn't go 64-bit until almost 2013.

The VST3 standard was released in 2008. T-RackS didn't support VST3 until late 2017.

Apple released the first M1 based computers a year and a half ago. T-RackS is still not yet Apple Silicon native, and won't be until T-RackS 6, which hasn't even been announced.

IK MUltimedia isn't among the 3 or 4 relevant developers on the "CLAP curious" list.

There is close to zero percent likelihood that T-RackS will support CLAP in the next 10 years, if at all. If even one plugin you use doesn't support CLAP then it may as well be none of them.

Are you suggesting I choose the CLAP format over the plugins I actually use and rely on?
Put the interests of a couple developers whom I use zero products from above my own interests?

it's weird how my DAW supports more than one plug in type though.. at the same time.. in the same session on the same channel... i can mix and match AU2/AU3/VST2/VST3 + max for live and ableton native plug ins.

also, do you want to buy my one t-racks plug in? i can't stand to use it because if i want to install the update i have to install like 100 other plug ins that i don't own because their installer is the biggest pos in the business and won't allow me to pick only the plug in i own. /rant and ikm is not going to be on the bleeding edge of anything.. you don't even need to mention them.

anyway.. why worry about it at all? since you aren't interested.. why do you want to be in this thread pissing into the wind?

[jamcat]

Just don't engage with Jamcat. He's not trying to have a serious conversation and seems more interested in pissing in everyone's Cheerio's.

If Clap fails, I don't think it will, then it will likely fail because the market doesn't see a place for it. The market here being both developers and end-users. I personally think it will be successful. If not, that's no skin off my ass either.

No one's being forced into anything, and that's quite clear. Comments like "being forced" and "Zero percent chance" are just Jamcat talking out his ass and are just cynical attempts at trolling. Clearly not someone who wants to engage in a serious discussion or who can be swayed.

+1, they are the ramblings of someone who is using a dinoDAW (see what I did there) and is wasting time being contrary on the internet instead of playing around with the new betas, to experience the benefits for themselves first hand.

I’m actually someone who has significant time and resources invested in a finely-tuned system that works and produced exactly the results that I want. I have no interest in playing with betas and toys. Maybe you have time for that but I don’t.

This thread is asking about people’s thoughts on CLAP. These are my thoughts on it.

[Freaqpeak]

Why are people getting anxious about a new format? Just keep using whatever you like. It doesn't affect you.

It should be the developers complaining, yet it seems like it is the plugin dev's who like this standard (because of governance, license and technical PoV). I bet Reaper, FL Studio, Ableton and Studio One will get on board.

I'd love to see more "MIDI plugins" again. Steinberg screwed up with VST3 and the fact that they say that developers ABUSED the VST2 format is so telling.....Instead of listening to the users and developers.

The only ones that probably does not want this at the moment are Steinberg, Apple and Avid.
If NI, Arturia etc gets onboard and CLAP versions will have better features (better multicore optimizations, poly modulation, non-destructive modulations etc etc), then, it will definitly pressure Steinberg, Apple and Avid to improve their own formats or.... simply get onboard. (from a commercial standpoint I don't think Steinberg will ever go this route though).

[EvilDragon]

@cnt - Avid is on board with CLAP!


As for the rest... there's also 386.

[fisherKing]

I’m actually someone who has significant time and resources invested in a finely-tuned system that works and produced exactly the results that I want. I have no interest in playing with betas and toys. Maybe you have time for that but I don’t.

This thread is asking about people’s thoughts on CLAP. These are my thoughts on it.

and therefore no one should move forward, nothing should change? if you're not interested, you only needed to tell us once... then let those of us who are interested in the discussion... discuss.

so, now that you have your 'finely-tuned system', will you avoid all new plugins, system or other software updates, new hardware, and still be running the same OS etc in 4, 5, 10 years? hmmm....